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Christians and lying

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Re: Christians and lying

Postby Timios » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Well, I don't agree. Lying is lying. If you don't like the food or the sweater, you don't have to say anything unless asked. And if asked, you don't have to answer the question directly. You don't have to say either that the ham was good or too dry. You don't have to say either that the sweater was beautiful or that it was ugly. You can say, "I'm sure you put a great effort in to preparing this dinner and knitting the sweater just for me."
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby Homer » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:01 pm

Timios,

You wrote:

You don't have to say either that the ham was good or too dry. You don't have to say either that the sweater was beautiful or that it was ugly. You can say, "I'm sure you put a great effort in to preparing this dinner and knitting the sweater just for me


Isn't that just an evasion, a withholding of the truth?
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby dwight92070 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:19 am

Si wrote:
Timios wrote:Did Jesus ever tell a lie in order not to hurt someone's feelings? It seems to me that He always told it like it is.


Events documented in the Bible are typically hard truths, told to sinners who needed to be made aware of their sin. We're not given much in the way of 1st century Judaean hospitality customs.

What if two situations are in conflict? In an example I gave, one's own Mother invites them over for Christmas dinner, and proceeds to cook a dry ham and gives a bad present, say, an ugly Christmas sweater she knitted herself.

Dwight: I would give my mom and hug and a kiss and thank her for the meal and sweater without further comment. If she specifically asks what I thought of the meal or gift, I would gently tell her the truth. For example: "Thank you but I usually like my ham (although I don't generally eat ham) a little more moist." or "That sweater is really not the style that I wear, but thank you so much for making it."

Dwight: I have on occasion had customers on my mail route give me a bottle of wine for Christmas. I do not drink alcohol of any kind, so I just tell them right away, up front: "Thanks so much for your gift, but I do not drink." Then I give them their bottle back. I'm not trying to be offensive, but if they are offended, I cannot help that. One customer even asked me to give it to someone else but I politely refused. I do not believe in drinking alcohol, so why would I give it away to someone else?

Dwight: The Bible says to speak the truth in love. I agree with some of the others here that the only Biblical justification for lying is to save someone's life, like Rahab or the midwives in Egypt. David "lied" when he pretended to be mentally retarded to save his own life. He also lied when he told the priest that he was on a special mission for King Saul, when actually he was fleeing from King Saul. It appears that that lie actually resulted in the death of the priest and his whole family.
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby Timios » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:25 am

Homer wrote:Timios,

You wrote:

Code: Select all
You don't have to say either that the ham was good or too dry. You don't have to say either that the sweater was beautiful or that it was ugly. You can say, "I'm sure you put a great effort in to preparing this dinner and knitting the sweater just for me


Isn't that just an evasion, a withholding of the truth?


Yes, that would be an evasion and a withholding of the truth. But that is not lying.
According to Webster's dictionary, to lie is "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive."
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby TK » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:54 pm

Dwight wrote:
"I would gently tell her the truth. For example: "Thank you but I usually like my ham (although I don't generally eat ham) a little more moist." or "That sweater is really not the style that I wear, but thank you so much for making it."

Meanwhile everyone else in the room is squirming over your lack of couth.

I cannot imagine saying any such thing to any person, much less someone I care about deeply.
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby dwight92070 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:23 pm

I love my mother very much but she's not so delicate that she can't bear to hear the truth. Perhaps all those squirming people could learn a lesson from her. How many godly people in the Bible told the truth, causing people to do a lot more than squirm?
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby TK » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:23 am

As has already been stated there are some truths that must be told out of love, regardless of squirmage or even gnashing of teeth and beatings. Some truths need not be told out of that same love.

In other words, there is a time offend and a time to not offend. Why in the world would I want to offend somebody who has done something nice for me?

My mom is very godly and I love her dearly as well. If I told her that her turkey that she prepared was dry, sure she would take it with grace. She might laugh it off. But that does not mean she is not hurt on the inside. However, she would not tell me this. Why? So as not to upset me, even though I had just upset her. But I suppose by not telling me she is lying as well.
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby mattrose » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:17 am

There are multiple occasions where Jesus did not tell the truth

Withholding the truth is different from lying, I agree. It is sometimes the right thing to do.

Whether lying is sometimes the right thing to do is a different question.

I personally think there are occasions where lying is not morally wrong and actually serves greater truth.
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby TK » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:47 pm

To me, the sin of "lying" entails telling an untruth purposefully for personal gain or nefarious purpose. I don't consider a "white lie" to preserve others' feelings as being told for personal gain.
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Re: Christians and lying

Postby Cheryl » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:35 am

Every word that comes out of your mouth should be truth.

Not all truth need be spoken.
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