hell.

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grayham
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hell.

Post by grayham » Thu May 24, 2018 1:37 am

mathew 25v46 and the whole chapter .jesus clearly says everlasting punishment.you either believe what jesus says or you dont.forget.the 4 views of hell and plugging a book to buy etc and all that debate jesus clearly taught it and came to save us from it.and those who teach against it like steve are blinded.and will have to face up to teaching this.

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mattrose
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Re: hell.

Post by mattrose » Thu May 24, 2018 11:48 am

I think you should take the verse literally instead of coming up with an interpretation to modern church traditions (belief in eternal torment).

The passage is a contrast

The wicked will go away to an eternal punishment. That is, they will be punished. How long will the punishment last? It will last eternally. What is the punishment? The passage does not say, but understanding the contrasts sheds light on the issue.

The punishment is contrasted with what happens to the righteous ('eternal life'). The righteous will be rewarded. How long will their reward last? It will last eternally. What is the reward? It is life. So the contrast is between life and punishment. The word life is clear. The word punishment is, in this case, ambiguous. But since it contrasts with life, the most literal reading would be that it is death (The normal thing to contrast with life).

In other words, the most literal, straight-forward understanding of the passage is that the righteous will experience eternal life and the wicked will experience a punishment that is eternal death.

Only extra biblical church tradition overthrows this straight-forward reading in my opinion.

grayham
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Re: hell.

Post by grayham » Thu May 24, 2018 11:37 pm

you can dissagree with the bible because you dont like the idea of etetnal punishment but jesus taught it and i believe it, gods right not you.

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mattrose
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Re: hell.

Post by mattrose » Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 am

Actually, I just demonstrated that I fully affirm "eternal punishment" and I showed that you are the one actually pouring meaning into the passage that isn't literally there.

What gives you permission to insert the concept of eternal punishING when it says eternal punishMENT? The power of recent church tradition?

grayham
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Re: hell.

Post by grayham » Fri May 25, 2018 12:39 pm

ertenal punishment is continous there is no end to it.differant degrees of it.where the worm does not die.

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mattrose
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Re: hell.

Post by mattrose » Fri May 25, 2018 2:27 pm

grayham wrote:ertenal punishment is continous there is no end to it.differant degrees of it.where the worm does not die.
Yes, there is no end to the punishMENT. We agree.

You are ADDING to the scripture that it is eternal punishING.

And your reason for adding it, apparently, is the idea that 'the worm does not die'

But that is based on Isaiah 66:24, which, if you actually read, talks about the 'dead bodies' of those who rebelled against God. They are not in torment. They are dead.

Since you strive to be biblical, I am sure this direct biblical language now has you convinced.

grayham
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Re: hell.

Post by grayham » Fri May 25, 2018 11:29 pm

my origanal question is that i disagree with the narrow pathway presenter,that the bible clearly teaches by jesus that unbelievers will experiance eternal punishment ,suffering seperated from god and it is eternal,does not matter what the jw or morm or sda believe jesus taught it, said it, and we are to believe it.this is proliferal ,and not central theoligy.but why people dont want to think of a holy god punishing the sinner in hell is because they have a differant belief,idea in what the character of god is like.eg.well the jesus i believe in would never do that,and they are right the jesus they believe in would not do that but thats not the jesus of the bible.

MMathis
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Re: hell.

Post by MMathis » Fri May 25, 2018 11:41 pm

Yikes.
MMathis
Las Vegas NV

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TK
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Re: hell.

Post by TK » Sat May 26, 2018 7:23 am

double yikes.

It appears Steve has a huge fan.

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Paidion
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Re: hell.

Post by Paidion » Sat May 26, 2018 12:58 pm

Interestingly, the "Jesus of the Bible" asks us to love those who hate us and do good to them. But this same Jesus approves of His Father eternally torturing His enemies in Hell? I can't seem to put that together, but I'm sure Grayham will straighten me out.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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