Church discipline

[Guest]

Hello, Paidion,

Concerning the "judge not" theme:

Perhaps the matter involves one's own position as a judge and sentencer. When the faithful person judges and sentences, it should not be as themselves, but merely as an agent of the one who is the Judge and Sentencer. As such, the faithful one does not judge, but gives the judgment of God; the faithful one does not condemn, but delivers the sentence of God. Accordingly, the faithful one does not impose their own judgments or sentences where God has not made them known.

Thus, a person who refrains from judging will not be judged for their presumptuous judgment; a person who refrains from condemning will not be condemned for their arrogant condmenation. But the person who acts as an agent to deliver the judgments and sentences of God [authentically, and not delusionally] is not liable to judgment or condemnation for doing so.

Just as a proposal....

Shalom,
Emmet

[Guest]

I agree with Paidion on this issue and there are many times when we in the body of christ are to make righteous judgement. I don't have the time to look them all up, but many have been stated already.

I think the problem a lot of times that people are hurt because of misunderstandings and wrongful use of church dicipline.

One of the main ones is when a pastor steps out of the confines of the biblical principles. A good shephard does not lord over his flock and he rebukes in love. Restoring in love a fallen brother.

The sheep also must not take advantage of the pastors kindness and the liberty that God has given us and use it as an opportunity to sin or cause discord among the brethren.

Emmit, I think you meen well in your proposial, but it is not up to us and our thinking. What does God say about it! There will always be conflict in the body of Christ, but their is a right and Christ way of handling things. love is the central thing when it comes to church dicipline.

[Guest]

How do people feel about shunning excommunicated members? I mean, for example, in the strictest form of the word. Like, avoiding the shunned in WalMart, or driving on the other side of the road... I know you can take everything to polar extremes...

[Guest]

Schoel,

You touched on something important in your opening question.

You said:

When should the elders/leaders of a local part of the Body of Christ become involved

The Church should get involved, but not just anyone in the Church. Most people should take a secondary role. Galatians 6:1; "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any tresspass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted".

Not just anyone should take the lead. Hopefully, the elders will be the spiritual people (or they shouldn't be elders) Paul says should take on the responsibility.

Matthew 18:15-17 might not apply at all. Isn't that a teaching about sin against you personally, and that alone? Would it apply in a case where you become aware of a brother or sister involved in an ongoing sin that had nothing to do with you? It seems to me in that case "those who are spiritual" should take the lead.

Anyway, that's my thoughts.

[Guest]

Homer, You said:

It seems to me in that case "those who are spiritual" should take the lead.
Anyway, that's my thoughts.

We are our brothers keeper and shoud'nt we all be of the mind and spirit of Christ in the church. In otherwords shoudn't we all be spiritual. So many times I have seen the members of a local congregation leave everything up to the elders and pastor and say that's there job when all along it is everybodys job. I do believe Matthew 18: 15-17 applys to the whole body. Individually and as as a whole.

[Guest]

Hi Frank,

You said:

We are our brothers keeper and shoud'nt we all be of the mind and spirit of Christ in the church. In otherwords shoudn't we all be spiritual.

You are correct, all should be, but all obviously are are not else Paul would not have said it this way. I believe it was Dallas Willard who said "I can trust Jesus to clear the money changers out of the temple, but I can not trust myself to do so".

Blessings, Homer

[Guest]

Homer, You are correct also, the only thing that I am concerned with is that so many people in the church are so quick to get the pastor or elders involved in someone elses affairs before taking proper steps of their own.

If I have a brother or sister who I know to be sinning openly or that through some act of ommision will not address it or repent of it. Then I will go to them first and try to restore them in love. Ususally one or two things will happen. They will repent and accept the rebuke or they will not and seperate themself from my friendship and fellowship. Getting the Pastor or elders involved should always be the last resort.

[Guest]

Hello I have a couple of thoughts about this subject. One is how discipline should not be administered. An example I know of personally was in a church where a very nice lady was an activities director of a singles sunday school department. This sister wasn't a problem and got along with everyone. But she was a newer believer and because she had a problem with a sin in her past with alcohol she stumbled and was reported to the director of the department. Basically she was shown the door and told don't let it hit you on the way out. My question is was this the correct way to handle it? I say NO!!!!!!! Was there an effort to try to help her or restore her in love? Nope. Just sorry you can't have the activities job any more and could you please leave. Is Christ glorified in this type of discipline? You tell me. The way this was handled was pitiful and sickning. She was hurt deeply by this action and I say the director sinned in the way he handled the situation. Is there a time to put someone out in the church? Absolutly if a person is in open sin or rebellion and won't repent then put them out. But it must be done in the biblical way of addressing them one on one then with a wittness then the church.