Faith is a substance

paulespino
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Re: Faith is a substance

Post by paulespino » Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:49 pm

Hebrews 11:1
Now FAITH is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I think we need to put the word Faith within the context of the verse.
FAITH is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for:
Which means that Faith is the substance or the ingredients of the things we are all hoping for.
But what are we hoping for, according to Romans 8:18-25

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

According to these passage that we are eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. ( This is our hope, that our body will be conformed according to the image of Christ, we will be given a glorious body just like Christ different from our human body )

Faith is the evidence of things not seen:
Again according to Paul that we have not seen the things that we are hoping for which is being conformed to the image of Christ because it has not happened yet. But even though it has not happened yet there is an evidence that what we hope for ( Conformation to the image of Christ ) will surely happen and this evidence is Faith.

But FAITH is also an evidence which means although we have not seen what we hope for yet, we have seen the evidence and this is Faith.

What are the evidences that we have FAITH. Love is the evidence of our Faith.

dizerner

Re: Faith is a substance

Post by dizerner » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:08 pm

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Homer
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Re: Faith is a substance

Post by Homer » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:18 pm

Hi dizerner (in reply to your post on Saturday, January 3),

Thanks for your reply, and even thanks for the questions!

Before responding question by question, I must say Paidion's answer is a good one:
But neither will God overcome sin in us on HIS own!
But together, God and we CAN overcome sin.
Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain. (2Cor 6:1)
The word translated as "working together is "συνεργουντες" (synergountes) from which comes the English word "synergy".
So it's a matter of our coöperating with God's enabling grace.
(Your questions follow as quotes)
May I ask just how successful you feel you've been in overcoming the flesh?
Subjective question, subjective answer. I'm a much better person, I think, than I was before I became a Christian, and very much better than in my youth.
I'd also like to ask just how much God contributes?


I have know way of knowing this. He speaks to me through His word, and when I am out of line He reminds me. Sometimes it feels a bit like a sharp stick in the stomach. He definitely gives me strength to face hard things.
Do you do most of the work but then, in a tough moment, God gives you that little extra boost?
I would say that when things get tough He gives a huge boost, makes some very hard things much easier to face, such as being told by an emergency room doctor "I'm sorry to tell you this, but you may die". When I donate money to the poor or help someone in need, I do it because I'm supposed to without giving a thought to whether I'm doing it or God is, or how much each contributes to the effort. I do know quite often I have to stop short and consider what He would want me to do in a situation. I do know apart from Him I would not give anywhere near what I give.
Also I'd like to ask, do you think faith is a struggle?
Not for me, I'm strongly convinced, but if you asked about the other side of the coin, faithfulness, I would say yes, the Christian life is a struggle. No one knows that he is a sinner more than a Christian; there is always room to improve. Get one thing fixed and He will show you another.
Do you know Paul describes the very fight you talk about as "the fight of faith?" How would you synthesize Paul's very clear statement that it was "not I, but the grace of God"? Why didn't Paul said it really was him, with some extra help from grace?
Considering the text:

1 Corinthians 15:9-10New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9. For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.


Paul worked very hard at being an Apostle. The Greek word kopiao, translated "labored", refers to being exhausted with toil, laboring with wearisome effort. Indeed, he appears to be saying he worked harder than all the other Apostles combined. Yet Paul hastens to add the grace of God worked with Him, but the results are in God's hands; earlier in the epistle Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 3:6 (NASB)

6. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.


God's grace, or favor, was with Paul in His labor.
have you ever seen just how high and holy God's standard is?
God's standard is perfection; "be Holy as I am Holy". But how much of the time do we live up to His standard? How much of the time do we keep the two greatest commandments? My prayer is as in Luke 18: "God have mercy on me, the sinner". As one who believes in progressive sanctification, I do not expect to ever reach perfect righteousness.
Could you hope to achieve that through God blessing the half-hearted, lousy efforts of the flesh?
No, but I can't expect to achieve it without effort on my part. A good Christian brother, who has liver cancer, needed some firewood, so I took him a load of nice oak. I don't think that God would have gotten that load of wood to him without my work in cutting, loading, and hauling the wood to his house. On the other hand if I was not a Christian there is less likelihood he would have gotten the wood. So I can't say what percent my efforts contributed to the gift of wood and what percent was God's influence.
How do you view the purpose and function of law?
The law prepared mankind for a savior.
How do you view what channels the power the of Spirit to your life?
Do you mean how I think we are empowered? Through faith in Christ.
How do you view the fallen nature? Can a person try to please God in the flesh?
Not sure what you mean. Do you mean by keeping the Law? Perhaps you ask the wrong question. I think the question is do we trust Christ and obey Him? It is not our efforts that are wrong but "trusting in ourselves, that we are righteous (Luke 18).
Could you describe a righteousness that comes by the works of the law instead of the hearing of faith?
I assume you do not mean "the Law of Christ". Then no, as Paul said:

2 Corinthians 3:5-6 (NASB)

5. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6. who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Sorry for so many questions, but I'd like to know how you view your paradigm of attaining righteousness by willpower and efforts.
Never said I did. But I do not believe you can attain righteousness without effort.

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Paidion
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Re: Faith is a substance

Post by Paidion » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:40 pm

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Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

dizerner

Re: Faith is a substance

Post by dizerner » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:45 am

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Paidion
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Re: Faith is a substance

Post by Paidion » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:22 pm

Dizerner, you seem to constantly emphasize the fact that we cannot earn our salvation by self-effort or self righteousness, and cannot earn heaven by good deeds. Why do you continue to emphasize this? Do you know ANYONE, anyone at all, who posts to this forum and who believes that we CAN earn heaven by good works?

I will be 77 next month. I have been in various Christian circles since I was a child. And I have never met ANYONE who claimed that we could earn our way to heaven by good works, or that self-effort was sufficient as a condition for entering heaven.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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Homer
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Re: Faith is a substance

Post by Homer » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:29 pm

Hi Dizerner,

I am mostly in agreement with what you have written in your last post. I would say, however, that actions have meaning. Baptism, I believe, means at least two things. It is a pledge or appeal to God, 1 Peter 3:21. It is an expression of Faith in Christ and repentance, a renunciation of our former life. When we participate in the Lord's supper, we preach Christ's death ("proclaim His death"). By our the way we live we can Deny Jesus as Lord as surely as anything an unbeliever may say:

Titus 1:16 (NASB)

16. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

Paul wrote this:

Romans 10:8-9 (NASB)

8. But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9. that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;


So as James indicates in his letter, "faith without works (deeds) is dead", our confession of Jesus as Lord is as worthless as a false confession if we make no effort to obey Him. As He said, "If you love me you will obey me".

This is not to say that we are saved by works. We are not; we can never measure up to His standard of righteousness. But praise God, for those in Him, he takes care of where we fall short:

Romans 4:6-8 (NASB)

6. just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7. “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered
8. “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”

Romans 8:1-4 (NASB)

8. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


So to sum up my thinking, we can never attain a state of perfection such that God owes us salvation. It will always be by grace. On the other hand, we can deny Him and throw away salvation by the way we live. And the living of a life pleasing to Him requires effort on our part in cooperating with Him - apart from Him we can do nothing.

So that's where I'm at until I am corrected. :D

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