2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

paulespino
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2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by paulespino » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:40 pm

I would like to ask your thoughts regarding Steve's comments on 2 Corinthian 5:14-20, the title of the tape is 2Cor-05 the time is at 1:15:00.
What are your thoughts do you agree or you do not agree and why?

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darinhouston
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Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by darinhouston » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:48 pm

Can you summarize what it's about, generally?

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TheEditor
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Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by TheEditor » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:28 pm

I think he is refering to Christ dying for "all"; Steve's take is that the corollary between "all" dying in Adam and "all" being made alive in Christ means that we have Jesus' merit and are not condemned unless we draw away from God. I remember a friend of mine trying to use a negative way of explaining the Ransom, he said, "Couched negatively, you no longer have to die for what Adam did, you now get to die for what you do." :D

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

dizerner

Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by dizerner » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:14 pm

All who are in Adam and all who are in Christ. We do nothing to to qualify for one, we do something to qualify for the other. Simple enough.

paulespino
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Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by paulespino » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:33 am

From my understanding Steve is saying that since Christ died for us and that God reconciled us to Himself through Christ therefore we ( the whole humanity ) also died. I think ( My understanding could be wrong ) Steve is also saying that since all humanity have died and reconciled to God, when Christ died all humanity have been saved at one time including those who killed Jesus but since some people continues to sin and never chose to follow Christ they became unsaved again.
Also babies were born saved and reconciled to God but once they commit the act of sin at the age of accountability they too will have to repent and go back to Christ.
This is my understanding what about you guys? I suggest you guys listen to the tape and perhaps share your thoughts.

dizerner

Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by dizerner » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:34 am

Scripture clearly teaches that the work of Christ is sufficient for all but not "automatically" applied. Even in that verse shows a clear condition:

and He died for all, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. (2Co 5:15 NAS)

paulespino
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Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by paulespino » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:50 am

Hi Dizzerner,
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
The New International Version. (2 Co 5:14).

What will be your comments on this verse. This verse seems to be telling us that when Christ died All have died which means that all have been saved reconciled to God the reason why some are not saved because they continue to sin, they chose not to live in Christ. Also in Romans 5:10 it says the following:
For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life.
Romans 5:10 tells us that while we were a rebel, Christ reconciled us to God through his death, But the life of Christ makes it even more powerful in saving us.
Note: ( Reconciled to God means that our sins were forgiven which means that we are saved).

dizerner

Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by dizerner » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:59 am

paulespino wrote:Hi Dizzerner,
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
The New International Version. (2 Co 5:14).

What will be your comments on this verse. This verse seems to be telling us that when Christ died All have died which means that all have been saved reconciled to God the reason why some are not saved because they continue to sin, they chose not to live in Christ. Also in Romans 5:10 it says the following:
For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life.
Romans 5:10 tells us that while we were a rebel, Christ reconciled us to God through his death, But the life of Christ makes it even more powerful in saving us.
Note: ( Reconciled to God means that our sins were forgiven which means that we are saved).
Paulespino, the New Testament is crystal clear that without faith you are not saved. There is a clear condition to being in Christ. Thus there is nowhere indicated that anything happens without a new birth. Now if people want to say babies are born "born again" already, I find Jesus discussion with Nicodemus very puzzling. Think about how Christ would have to word it to Nicodemus:

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, but then dies spiritually and is born of the Spirit again he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Even when speaking of children Scripture is very deliberate that they must have a faith in Christ:
If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble

And why would John the Baptist being filled with the Spirit from the womb be anything special?
and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb just like every baby since the dawn of time

But I do think you can make a case that Christian parents can exercise covenantal faith for their progeny until the age of accountability, such as the Biblical description of "you and all your household will be saved."

paulespino
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Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by paulespino » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:38 pm

Hi Dizzerner,

Thanks for your reply.

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willowtree
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Re: 2COR-05 AT 1:15:00 OF Steve's tape

Post by willowtree » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:16 pm

paulespino wrote: Note: ( Reconciled to God means that our sins were forgiven which means that we are saved).
We might be trying to leap over two hurdles here on one jump. To equate being reconciled to God = forgiveness which also = we are saved may be anticipating more that what can or does actually happen.
The story Jesus told in Matthew 18:21-35 nags at me in this respect. In the story, a man who owed an enormous amount of money to the king appeared before the king to make his case. The amount was impossible to pay. But the king forgave him - just like that. Free to go. But the servant went out and, first thing, he found someone who owed him a few bucks and dragged him off to debtors prison. While we can debate the forgiven so you must forgive truth, the relevant point to this discussion is that though God was reconciled to the servant (He had struck his debt off the ledger), the man was not accepting of that and refused to accept it. In a very short time he was dragged off to the debtors prison himself.

This is what I see in the passage in 2Cor 5. God has made a move - a move that brings us to the brink of a relationship with him, with a clean slate and a new life to embrace. But our sins are not forgiven until we embrace that reconciliation, accept and by faith make it our own.

So in your equation you must allow for the working of faith to clinch the deal. Every time I read the story of the prodigal son, I am reminded that the son and the father met and embraced out on the highway, neither at the farm nor in the pigsty. This is mean to tell us something.

Graeme
If you find yourself between a rock and a hard place, always head for the rock. Ps 62..

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