Porn in the church

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jaydam
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Porn in the church

Post by jaydam » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:21 pm

The church I was in is horrified at the churches that are accepting gay marriage. But while they cannot fathom gay marriage being accepted in the church, among many church goers in my old church the TV show Game of Thrones has gained a massive following.

Even the unbelieving public has centered conversation around the pornographic nature of the show.

At a greater level, sexually explicit movies, sitcoms that present the flamboyant gay man for comedy, etc. are pervasive in the church.

How is it that I would claim a need to leave a church if they decided gay marriage is ok, but I would not feel led to leave a church which allows pornographic shows, comedic homosexuality, and more to unopposedly be an accepted part of the life of the congregation in general and up to the leadership?

It seems a double standard when many people are leaving churches over accepting gay marriage, but are ok with fellowshipping with 50 Shades of Grey fans, Game of Throne fans, Magic Mike fans, etc.

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mattrose
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Re: Porn in the church

Post by mattrose » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:50 pm

It's a good question.

I think there is a difference, though, between a church actually performing a ceremony for a gay couple (A direct endorsement of a sinful arrangement) and a church having amongst its members people who approve of inappropriate forms of entertainment. Both are problems, but it seems to me they are slightly different kinds of problems.

To make them more equivalent, I think you'd have to have the church host a 'game of thrones' viewing party (I'm assuming your right about the nature of the show... I've heard of it but have never seen it or heard specifics about its contents).

But your general point is one I agree with. We tend to categorize sins into the REALLY BAD ones (one's we don't happen to struggle with) and the JUST A LITTLE BAD ones (one's we commit frequently). Worse yet, sometimes we just take bad stuff out of the sin category entirely.

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jaydam
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Re: Porn in the church

Post by jaydam » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:02 pm

My comparison is not about the performing of gay marriage as much as allowing gay, "Christian," married couple to fellowship in the church as Christians in good standing.

People do not believe such couples should be allowed to be good standing Christian members, and will leave if such couples are accepted by the church. Yet the people who would leave over that situation will fellowship with viewers or even participate in watching the shows I talked about.

I see your point, but I was more considering the issue of fellowship, not the church performing the marriage. If that makes sense.

dizerner

Re: Porn in the church

Post by dizerner » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:07 pm

Absolutely agree, it's just religious hypocrisy. The mainstream church seems more worried about what's happening among the sinners of the world (as if that matters to them—let the dead bury their own dead) then their own call to personal holiness.

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mattrose
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Re: Porn in the church

Post by mattrose » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:21 pm

jaydam wrote:My comparison is not about the performing of gay marriage as much as allowing gay, "Christian," married couple to fellowship in the church as Christians in good standing.

People do not believe such couples should be allowed to be good standing Christian members, and will leave if such couples are accepted by the church. Yet the people who would leave over that situation will fellowship with viewers or even participate in watching the shows I talked about.

I see your point, but I was more considering the issue of fellowship, not the church performing the marriage. If that makes sense.
Okay, thanks for the clarification. Yes, that could be clear hypocrisy.

Perhaps what makes it a little more difficult to judge is that being in an ongoing gay relationship is more black&white than the question of what forms of entertainment are appropriate for Christian consumption. If you could hypothetically make a list of 100 movies/shows with an increasing amount of moral filth and then polled 100 Christians about where the 'line' is between appropriate and inappropriate content... I'd guess you'd get a lot of different answers. Even on this forum I'd bet there would be a good level of disagreement on what levels of romance, violence, profanity, etc. are allowable for Christian eyes/ears.

There just aren't seemingly steps between NOT in a gay relationship and YES in a gay relationship.

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jaydam
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Re: Porn in the church

Post by jaydam » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:34 pm

I agree that a gay relationship is black and white while a line in entertainment is difficult to draw.

Is the line drawn at the actual viewing of genitals engaged in a sex act, is the line drawn at simulation or concealment of the genitals, is the line drawn as just the suggestion and lax attitude portrayed at sex even if not sex act is seen or simulated?

I know it is stereotypical "Christianese," but I draw the line in general at Phil 4:8, and ensuring I am bringing into my mind what is pure and virtuous. I do leave the door open to being exposed to immoral and/or explicit material whether by accident, in the course of study, etc..

dizerner

Re: Porn in the church

Post by dizerner » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:50 pm

Good post Jaydam. I think in this case it's bad to pull out the "fuzzy gray line" scenario, that we can't know if a show is truly immoral if some people disagree and there could theoretically be "worse" shows...

But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

I'm fully against supporting a gay lifestyle but Is full frontal nudity "debatable"? Is glorifying senseless violence "debatable"? Are we just glad we can clearly define "gayness" so we can over-emphasize that one sin that most of us can't even relate to and have never been tempted with? I think there's some logs in our eyes if so.

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mattrose
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Re: Porn in the church

Post by mattrose » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:51 pm

I don't have any interest in trying to draw a line to show what degree of sexual depravity is allowable for Christian entertainment.

I don't think any depravity is allowable for Christian entertainment.

I think the thing that makes the whole issue more complex is that Christians can hypothetically watch certain movies/shows that include depravity and yet not be entertained by them (or at least those parts of the show).

I'll give an example I've given before. I have watched the movie Se7en multiple times. It contains a lot of depravity (it is about a serial killer who demonstrates the 7 deadly sins). In viewing it, I subject myself to various types of depravity. I am not entertained by them. But I would say I really like the movie. I like its message. I like the point that it makes. I find it thought-provoking.

To me, if there's a movie that is true to life, I can tolerate it covering things that are true to life. The world is full of depravity. It'd be a little odd if a movie about real life didn't include some. I'm not entertained by depravity in real life. And I'm not entertained by it on a screen. I don't ban myself from interacting with real human beings, nor do I ban myself from watching movies about such people.

The reason I say the issue is a little complex is that only the individual Christian knows whether they are seeking out the depravity for entertainment or observing it b/c it is part of a message of a movie/show. To me, it is pretty easy to tell when you're being entertained by evil and when you find it despicable.

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jaydam
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Re: Porn in the church

Post by jaydam » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:10 pm

I agree Matt. You bring attention to the flip side of the issue.

I also enjoy such movies as Se7en. Also, Fight Club, even a couple of the SAW movies where people are made to face their sins. I feel these movies have the intent to portray or reflect on many deep topics. I do not feel observing an accurate portrayal of the human condition or human predicaments violates the Bible.

The sex in them or other immoral portrayals are incidental to the story.

I don't have an answer for where the line is exactly. Thus, the reason for this post and to hear other opinions.

Personally, I believe there is a difference between a movie with immorality in the story because the story is about people, and a movie story made for the simple sake of putting immorality on the screen.

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robbyyoung
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Re: Porn in the church

Post by robbyyoung » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:21 pm

Hi Matt,

That was an excellent narrative, thanks.

God Bless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Robby Young
U.S. Army Retired

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