church membership

[Guest]

Hi Paidion,

It is impossible to judge a person's "relationship with God". I don't think I suggested doing that. But if they are strangers we can ask them about it --- ask them whether they have repented and submitted to Christ. Anything wrong with that?

I don't think you suggested that either and no, I don't see anything wrong with asking someone if they have repented and submitted to Christ. But I don't think communion should be withheld from people when we simply don't know what's in their hearts.

I agree with the 1 Cor 11 verse Homer quoted above: "Let each man examine himself".

I agree with almost everything else you wrote about judging the sinful conduct of those in the church up to and including ex-communication. I do believe the scriptures support it and that Jesus taught it (Matt 18 ).

[Guest]

Thanks Paidion!

Loaves: Excommunication generally means to exclude from the communion of believers. There certainly is a place for the body to be involved in discipline (Matt. 18:15-17) and even putting one out of the assembly (1 Cor. 12:1-13) – excommunication if you would.

Excommunication in the Roman Catholic sense often means to exclude one from all contact with God and to condemn to hell. I would not support this understanding of excommunication. No human organization has the right to determine ones eternal state.

[Guest]

Loaves: Excommunication generally means to exclude from the communion of believers. There certainly is a place for the body to be involved in discipline (Matt. 18:15-17) and even putting one out of the assembly (1 Cor. 12:1-13) – excommunication if you would.

Excommunication in the Roman Catholic sense often means to exclude one from all contact with God and to condemn to hell. I would not support this understanding of excommunication. No human organization has the right to determine ones eternal state.

Yeah, I do believe there is a place for excommuncation. The objective being that that sinner will repent, not condemning him to hell.

[Guest]

4. Any local group claiming to be a local church who requires people to formally "join" that group with "membership requirements" has identified itself as a club rather than an expression of the one and only Christian Church.

Paidion, what if the membership requirements for the local church were something as simple as the usual confession of faith:

- Do you believe that God is three divine Persons
- That Jesus Christ is the Son of God
- That the Holy Spirit is personal and divine
- etc., etc., etc.

"And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple." - Acts 9

What are your thoughts on that verse? Of course Paul was apart of the Body of Christ, but what about the local body?

[Guest]

Paidion, what if the membership requirements for the local church were something as simple as the usual confession of faith:

- Do you believe that God is three divine Persons
[etc. etc.]

If a local church required me to believe that God is three divine Persons, in order to fellowship with me, then I wouldn't qualify.

A disciple of Christ should not be required take any particular theological or philosophical position. That requirement only serves to split up the Body.

[Guest]

Calvary Chapels dont have church membership..

[Guest]

I have never been to a 'church'. I don’t feel compelled to try to attend one either. What church made of mans hands would you have me go to? Fellowship with like minded around here doesn't exist but for a small group of four. Other than that I have this forum as well as others. sinner.

[Guest]

I have never been to a 'church'. I don’t feel compelled to try to attend one either. What church made of mans hands would you have me go to? Fellowship with like minded around here doesn't exist but for a small group of four. Other than that I have this forum as well as others. sinner.

I see your point, sinner. A "church" is a body of believers, not a building.

However, Christ in the book of Revelation has messages for each of the local bodies. Collectively they are one "church." But it seems that there are also local "sub-churches."

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write...And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write..."

Any thoughts?

[Guest]

Is saying someone is " a true disciple" the same as saying they are a saint as described by Paul in Romans 1 and a part of the remnant as in Romans 9? If a person argues for the validity of "membership" in a local church, which appears to be a non-scriptural concept, can any of the above terms apply to them? In the original question that started this thread a pastor was teaching membership classes. Would such an idea show that the shepherd has no understanding of what it means to be a disciple, a saint, or a member of the remnant?

livingink

[Guest]

Talking about church membership, I have a somewhat related question:
how do you know when it is time to leave a given congregation?

We moved to a new state 7 years ago to join a small plain anabaptist church.
Over the years many families have left. The most recent ones were pretty solid spiritually, nice kids, good marriages. 15 families have now become 7, and all but 2 are part of the same intermarried clan. The power, decision making and 'in group' has concentrated there. If we visit other places so our teen can make new friends there is criticism. When she joined a chorus run by another acceptable group there was criticism even though she also made all the meetings of our singing group. If we put energy into anything outside, there are sniping comments. We have tried for 5 or 6 years but nothing is ever good enough. The doctrine seems to be ok but the sociology is very messed up. New would be members are agressively courted but once you join it is only expectation and pressure tactics. It has really worn on all of us and embittered most of us.
Is it ever better to be without a church than in a difficult one?
When do you bail out? Do you visit off and on while you shop or just leave cold turkey?
Paula