Judas in John 12:1-8

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dwight92070
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Judas in John 12:1-8

Post by dwight92070 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:51 am

I have mentioned this before but I just read it again and cannot help but see the similarities between Judas and socialists or between Judas and the Democrat party (essentially. socialists). Obviously, Jesus and His disciples were not a civil government, so the parallel is not exact, but the same principles apply. If one pays taxes to a Socialist government or to our government when the Democrats are in charge, they have "the money box" just like Judas did. Then they will redistribute this money, MINUS THEIR TAKE, to the "poor" in innumerable programs. Just like Judas, too many of them are not really concerned about the real poor, but are after THEIR TAKE - they are thieves. And whatever they do give to the "poor" is primarily to buy votes, to keep them in office. I understand that some Republicans do this too, but for a Democrat, it's as if it was their party platform. Ever increasing taxes and ever increasing government programs and departments until we have what we have today - a behemoth, out of control government that cannot stop spending and stealing from the people.

Today's socialists and Democrats, however, put Judas to shame. He only pilfered. They, on the other hand, go for the jugular. They want total control. Jesus was concerned about those who were really poor, and He commands us to share that concern and give to them. But He NEVER told us to give to the government, who then would give to the poor. He told us to give DIRECTLY to the poor. Of course there are Christian organizations who we can give to, who will in turn give to the needy, but we can check them out and see what percentage actually goes to the poor. For the most part, our government is beyond our control, i.e. even if we could find out how much of our tax money goes to the needy, we certainly cannot have ANY control over it. There is no indication that Jesus would ever support a monstrous, out-of-control spending government.

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Paidion
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Re: Judas in John 12:1-8

Post by Paidion » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:56 pm

Dwight wrote:Jesus was concerned about those who were really poor, and He commands us to share that concern and give to them.
That is certainly true. How many ultra-Conservative Republicans do that? My thought is that there are not many, because many or most of them reject Socialism for the very reason that they want to keep their wealth for themselves.
Of course there are Christian organizations who we can give to, who will in turn give to the needy, but we can check them out and see what percentage actually goes to the poor.
That is correct. I found out that World Vision gives 90% of their take, to the needy. The other 10% if for administrative costs.
There is no indication that Jesus would ever support a monstrous, out-of-control spending government.
There is certainly evidence that Jesus may have indirectly paid taxes to the Roman Government. (Matt 17:24-27)

Although many commentators correctly point out that this tax was paid to the temple, some of them state that the Romans then confiscated the money from the temple. The commentators in the Geneva Bible say that the Romans extorted the didrachma paid to the Sanctuary after they subdued Judea. If this is true, then Jesus was supporting the "monstrous" Roman Government.
Paidion

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dwight92070
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Re: Judas in John 12:1-8

Post by dwight92070 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:31 pm

Paidion wrote:
Dwight wrote:Jesus was concerned about those who were really poor, and He commands us to share that concern and give to them.
That is certainly true. How many ultra-Conservative Republicans do that? My thought is that there are not many, because many or most of them reject Socialism for the very reason that they want to keep their wealth for themselves.

Dwight: I don't know how you define ultra-Conservative Republicans? Is that the opposite of ultra-Liberal Democrats? As a matter of fact, I have heard of stats that show Republicans give far more to charities and the poor than Democrats do. Is there something wrong with keeping our own wealth, that we earned? Do you or does the government have a right to take my wealth against my will? Do you want the government to take our wealth from us? You seem to be assuming that the poor can only be helped chiefly by the government.

There is no indication that Jesus would ever support a monstrous, out-of-control spending government.
There is certainly evidence that Jesus may have indirectly paid taxes to the Roman Government. (Matt 17:24-27)

Although many commentators correctly point out that this tax was paid to the temple, some of them state that the Romans then confiscated the money from the temple. The commentators in the Geneva Bible say that the Romans extorted the didrachma paid to the Sanctuary after they subdued Judea. If this is true, then Jesus was supporting the "monstrous" Roman Government.
Dwight: I don't deny this at all. Jesus was submitting to the authorities, IMO, even though He did not agree with them. If He had refused to pay any tax, He could be charged with some crime and punished, etc., all of which would be a huge distraction from His mission. Not only that, but IMO He was also setting an example for us to obey the laws, even though we may not agree with them, as long as we are not disobeying God. In a similar way, I must pay taxes to this monstrous government, or else be put in jail. But I do not support this huge government in principle. Again, Jesus commanded us to give to the poor, not to give to a middleman who will take most of it, and then give what's left over to the poor. That is why I believe He would reject the principle of a monstrous out-of-control spending government.

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dwight92070
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Re: Judas in John 12:1-8

Post by dwight92070 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:43 pm

Romans 13 shows us clearly that it was never the government's job to get into the "charity business", although I can see that there might be some exceptions. By and large, the government is to defend the people from foreign or domestic enemies, punishing the evildoers, and praising the righteous. Most of the other government programs are just stealing from the people and involving themselves in areas that are none of their business.

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