Clean and Unclean Animals

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dwight92070
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Clean and Unclean Animals

Post by dwight92070 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:39 pm

If anyone out there really believes that the New Testament teaches that we can now eat any animal or creature, then please put your mouth where your money is, so to speak and demonstrate to the rest of us your faith in that by eating a steady diet of worms, spiders, snakes, mice, rats, bats, scorpions, ants, leeches, hippos, elephants, giraffes, vultures, hyenas, etc.

Or do you just believe that for shrimp, lobster, and bacon?

Okay, how about just one day a week?

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Homer
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Re: Clean and Unclean Animals

Post by Homer » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:16 pm

Dwight,

You wrote:
If anyone out there really believes that the New Testament teaches that we can now eat any animal or creature
I'm not sure you are making sense. "Can" does not mean "must". But if a person was lost in the wilderness and starving would he then sin if he ate any of those things you listed? Do you believe we are bound by the Law of Moses or did it end with the coming of the New Covenant?

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steve
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Re: Clean and Unclean Animals

Post by steve » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:31 pm

Before the giving of the Torah, some animals were clean, and some unclean, with reference to appropriate sacrifices to Yahweh. However, when it came to humans eating meat, all animals were permitted to be eaten (so long as they "moved")—
"Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you." (Gen.9:3).
After the establishment of the New Covenant, and the passing of the Old Covenant Torah, every animal was declared to be permitted as food for Christians:
"For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused, if it is received with thanksgiving." (1 Tim.4:4)
We see that there was only one period of time, from the giving of the Sinaitic Covenant until the giving of the New Covenant, during which certain animals were forbidden to be eaten by God's people.

Those who believe otherwise are welcome to post rebuttals of this thesis.

And Homer has answered well. As far as God is concerned, I may eat whatever meat I desire. But this does not mean my refusal to eat spiders—or even snails, scorpions, or monkey brains (which are regularly eaten in other cultures)—makes me inconsistent. Even under Torah, it was lawful to eat tripe, tongue and goat's eyeballs—but I would not wish to eat them, as many cultures do. There are many foods I would find repulsive. This is an entirely different question from that of what God permits or does not permit men to eat.

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dwight92070
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Re: Clean and Unclean Animals

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:06 pm

After the establishment of the New Covenant, and the passing of the Old Covenant Torah, every animal was declared to be permitted as food for Christians:
"For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused, if it is received with thanksgiving." (1 Tim.4:4)
Dwight: The NASB says: "For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it is received with gratitude; ...", which, given the context of verse 3, seems to be a better translation, because "everything created" could refer back to both marriage and foods, whereas your translation (every creature) seems to ONLY apply to animals and indirectly to foods.

Dwight: So if the NASB is the correct way of seeing this, then it would be saying that ALL God-created things (which includes marriage and foods) are to be received with thanksgiving and no God-created thing should be refused.

Dwight: So, your translation does imply that no creature should be refused (to be eaten). Whereas the NASB implies that ALL created things should not be refused - food should not be refused to be eaten, marriage should not be refused to engage in, authority should not be refused, either to take on or to submit to,etc. So what constitutes food? Leviticus 11 seems to tell us what is and what is not food.

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jasonmodar
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Re: Clean and Unclean Animals

Post by jasonmodar » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:38 pm

dwight92070 wrote:So what constitutes food? Leviticus 11 seems to tell us what is and what is not food.
Leviticus 11 doesn't give a definition of what is and what isn't food. Maybe you meant food that's permissible for us to eat. Even then it's not telling "us" that. It tells the nation of Israel, while under the Old Covenant, what animals are and aren't clean.

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dwight92070
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Re: Clean and Unclean Animals

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:04 pm

jasonmodar wrote:
dwight92070 wrote:So what constitutes food? Leviticus 11 seems to tell us what is and what is not food.
Leviticus 11 doesn't give a definition of what is and what isn't food. Maybe you meant food that's permissible for us to eat. Even then it's not telling "us" that. It tells the nation of Israel, while under the Old Covenant, what animals are and aren't clean.
Dwight: You're right. Only I would state your 2nd statement differently, i.e. it tells Israel what ANIMALS are permissible to eat, because, according to that same chapter, not all animals are considered food. Also, aren't we the true Israel of God, so isn't there some wisdom here for us too?

Dwight: Other than the verse in Timothy that steve quoted and the verses that you and I discussed on the other thread about this topic, (and I believe I gave my understanding of those verses) where does the New Testament say that the clean/unclean animal list is no longer valid or true? The assumption on Steve's part and yours, I guess, is that all of that is obsolete, now that we are under the New Covenant. I agree that, as far as salvation goes, we are no longer under the law, but isn't there wisdom given to us in the law that is still valid wisdom today? As I said before, I don't think eating an unclean animal today would be a sin, just like breaking the sabbath is not a sin, but I do believe that it is physically unhealthy. After all, God calls those animals detestable and abhorrent. Isn't He telling something here? How can it be that they are only detestable and abhorrent to Israel, but not to others? Or what is it about the New Covenant that makes them no longer detestable and abhorrent? Also, why did Jesus in the New Testament strongly imply that it would be a bad thing to give your son a snake or a scorpion to eat, instead of a fish or an egg? Luke 11:11-13 If they were no longer unclean, then there shouldn't be a problem.

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steve
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Re: Clean and Unclean Animals

Post by steve » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:27 am

Feel free to interpret these passages according to your conscience, Dwight (Rom.14:1-5).

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dwight92070
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Re: Clean and Unclean Animals

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:47 am

Thank you, Steve, you also have the freedom to interpret them according to your conscience, referencing those same verses in Romans.

Dwight

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