Judges 8:27 and Hebrews 11: Gideon

Post by **_arndtc** » Wed May 24, 2006 8:24 am

In Judges 8:27, near the end of the discussion on Gideon, it is mentioned that he setup an ephod (what appears to be an idol) and the it became a snare to him and his family.

Yet Gideon is still mentioned mentioned in the 'Faith Chapter' Hebrews 11:32, where the author of Hebrews says that he doesn't have time to talk of everyone, but yet lists Gideon (Gedeon).

How can we reconcile that near the end of Gideon's life he seemed to fall away, yet he is still mentioned in the faith chapter. My thoughts on this may be clouded by my presupposition that those mentioned in the faith chapter were saved by their faith. But after reading through it many times, I keep comming to the same conclusion. Maybe there is some evidence to the otherwise.[/url]

Post by **_JC** » Thu May 25, 2006 7:57 am

The story in Judges reads as though Gideon didn't mean for the ephod to become an idol, but rather a symbol of his military conquest. It became a snare when the people of Israel treated it like an idol. In other words, Gideon was probably unwise to put up something like that knowing Israel had a propensity for turning to idols. Gideon was indeed a man of faith and constantly rebuked his people, trying to turn them to God. The ephod issue wasn't a lack of faith but an unwise decision, in my opinion.

Post by **_arndtc** » Fri May 26, 2006 7:52 am

I would agree that the story reads as though Gideon had not ill intentions when he mand the ephod. The concern somes from the last statement that it became a snare to Gideon and his family. To me it would indicate that in his last days Gideon abandoned his Salvation and became ensared in the idol worship of this ephod. If this really is the case, then why was Gideon still applauded for this faith in Hebrews. Maybe I'm missing some other relant passages that explain this, or more likely God is more gracious than I would have been.

Post by **_arndtc** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:41 am

Sorry this has shift a bit towards the new testimant, but I'm still trying to sort out the lift of Gideon.

As I was reading more in the book of Hebrews 11, I came to verses 38 and 39.
Heb. 11:38-19
"(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth."
"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:"

It seems to start off saying that they were to good for the world because of their faith, which would point to them being saved by their faith. An this continues in vs 39 where is says that they "obtained a good report through faith".

It is the last part of vs 39 that is throughing me for a loop. "received not the promise:" What does this mean. I think this might be refering to the promise of the Holy Spirit that Jesus mentions in John 14, but it doesn't appear clearly to me that is what the writer of Hebrews is trying to point out.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:54 pm

It is the last part of vs 39 that is throughing me for a loop. "received not the promise:" What does this mean. I think this might be refering to the promise of the Holy Spirit that Jesus mentions in John 14, but it doesn't appear clearly to me that is what the writer of Hebrews is trying to point out.

Arndtc, If you continue to Heb 11.40 it says "God having provided some better thing for us that they without us should not be made perfect."
So i think the promise means to be completed through the New Covenant and it's promise of salvation and eternal life.
The "better thing" i think is contrasting the New Covenant with the Old.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:18 pm

How can we reconcile that near the end of Gideon's life he seemed to fall away, yet he is still mentioned in the faith chapter. My thoughts on this may be clouded by my presupposition that those mentioned in the faith chapter were saved by their faith. But after reading through it many times, I keep comming to the same conclusion. Maybe there is some evidence to the otherwise.[/url]

But was it near the end of his life because after the ephod "And the country was in quietness forty years in the days of Gideon" Judges 8.28

Post by **_arndtc** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:38 pm

STEVE7150 wrote:How can we reconcile that near the end of Gideon's life he seemed to fall away, yet he is still mentioned in the faith chapter. My thoughts on this may be clouded by my presupposition that those mentioned in the faith chapter were saved by their faith. But after reading through it many times, I keep comming to the same conclusion. Maybe there is some evidence to the otherwise.

But was it near the end of his life because after the ephod "And the country was in quietness forty years in the days of Gideon" Judges 8.28

Thanks for pointing this out. I had not notice this when I read the passage before. So this means that we don't know much about that 40 years.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Wed May 31, 2006 8:28 am

So this means that we don't know much about that 40 years.
Well we do know this, which is that Israel lived in peace which usually meant they were obedient to God which means that Gideon must have repented.