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Is Genesis History?

Re: Is Genesis History?

Postby TruthFinder » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:41 am

So I haven't watched the video yet, but it occurs to me that there are a number of hidden assumptions in this discussion. For example, if God created the world/everything 6000 years ago and told us how long it took, but people today see evidence of a much longer creation - God must be a deceiver? Evidence always needs interpretation. If my interpretation of the world around me is based on faulty assumptions then my evidence will be interpreted falsely. Could it be that there is another deceiver working on our interpretations? I agree with the idea that we should question what we think we know. Do you base your fundamental truth about the world around you on the wisdom of man?

Any freshman undergrad taking critical thinking/logic knows that the human mind is subject to errors. Once we "know" anything, it becomes a trap for us and we don't see it as a weakness. If you know that the speed of light is a constant that cannot change, or that matter can neither be created or destroyed then you cannot logically accept supernatural occurrences which break these laws. If you try to hold both at once you will experience cognitive dissonance, so you will compromise somewhere or simply avoid the topic.

What did Jesus think about Genesis?
Did Jesus believe in a literal, fully human in one day creation? He seems to indicate that he does in a few ways.

First here in Mark Jesus relates the one flesh creation to marriage and why we ought not to divorce. He words it in a way that seems to indicate that in the beginning God made humans male and female (rather than creating amino acids or an amoeba and then letting it evolve)- Mark 10:6 - “But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’

In Mark 13:19 Jesus says that man's sufferings began soon after the creation of the world "For in those days there will be gsuch htribulation as has not been ifrom the beginning of the creation that jGod created until now, and never will be."

But my favorite is John 5:45-47..."45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, gon whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for hhe wrote of me. 47 But iif you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

Jesus seems to indicate that Moses' words were worth believing. One of the passages of Exodus, written by Moses, is Exodus 20:11 "“For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”

Sorry for typing errors, I'm traveling and using an iPad.
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Re: Is Genesis History?

Postby steve7150 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:23 pm

Jesus seems to indicate that Moses' words were worth believing. One of the passages of Exodus, written by Moses, is Exodus 20:11 "“For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it










Maybe the days of creation are six 24 hour days but i didn't see anything resembling a slam dunk. The man days have to be 24 hour days because we are subject to the sun, but must God be subject to the sun? Obviously not so why must God days be 24 hour days? Did God need to rest? Obviously some things that sound literal are sometimes not.
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Re: Is Genesis History?

Postby MMathis » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:17 am

I believe science to be true as far as we know it. I believe in the speed of light and the Big Bang theory.

I also believe in the supernatural that God alone is capable of. Where is it written that you can't believe both?

The GPS in your phone is accurate (since the government quit purposely blurring it) down to a very fine point. It now has altitude capability so I can pop out of the clouds on the centerline of a runway for landing. All that is science. It's not true some of the time, it's true all of the time. Radio waves traveling at the speed of light make that possible.
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Re: Is Genesis History?

Postby dwight92070 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:15 am

Factual science will agree with the factual Bible, God's word, but when so-called science contradicts the factual Bible, there should be no question as to which one we must believe and which one is in error. True science will be in harmony with Bible truths, not the other way around. The only obvious exception to this is when God performs a miracle. a supernatural act which cannot be explained by natural science, nor is He obligated to explain it to us, to quell our doubts about His honesty, or for any other reason. Did God explain to Job what was happening behind the scenes when all of his children were killed, all of his possessions were taken or destroyed, and he mysteriously got boils all over his body? No, he didn't. Were there supernatural acts taking place? Yes. Did Job think God was deceiving Him, because He didn't know what was going on? No, he continued to trust him. Are we to do the same thing? Yes!
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Re: Is Genesis History?

Postby MMathis » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:02 pm

One thing is for certain. Nobody knows for certain. There are billions of people that believe the Bible to be true. The only problem is getting them to all believe what it says. Much to the chagrin of most Catholics, I think there will be a bunch of Mormons in Heaven. There will probably be some Buddhists and 7th Day Adventists.

People have studied the Bible for a long time. Monks go off by themselves and study their whole life. Yet somehow, my born-again sister-in-law has all the answers.
A Catholic friend of ours took us to dinner and tried to convert us. He said he could prove he was right. Something about a rock and Peter. I asked if he thought any other ministers might think they could "prove" they were correct. He said no. Yikes!

The point is, not all interpretations all correct.
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Re: Is Genesis History?

Postby dwight92070 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:38 pm

[quote="MMathis"]One thing is for certain. Nobody knows for certain. There are billions of people that believe the Bible to be true. The only problem is getting them to all believe what it says. Much to the chagrin of most Catholics, I think there will be a bunch of Mormons in Heaven. There will probably be some Buddhists and 7th Day Adventists.

Dwight: Does it make you happy to see strife between religious groups? It appears to.

Dwight: You seem to relish the thought that nobody, in your opinion, can be certain that they have the truth. Jesus said that if we abide in His word, that we could know the truth. John 8:31-32 So just taking that verse alone, we can see it contradicts your opinion. There are a multitude of verses that show us that we can be confident that we have the truth. We don't want to hold the truth with pride, so we must watch our attitude, but we would be rejecting the Bible, if we said that we cannot know for certain, that God has revealed the truth to us.

People have studied the Bible for a long time. Monks go off by themselves and study their whole life. Yet somehow, my born-again sister-in-law has all the answers.

Dwight: Do you have a disdain for born-again people? I don't know your sister-in-law, but are you rejecting the truth that she gleaned from the Bible, or are you rejecting her and her attitude and behaviour? No Christian has all the answers, so to act as though we do would be arrogant. But thank God that we CAN know with certainty that Jesus is THE TRUTH, that we are saved, and that He has revealed much truth to us in His word. I have no doubt that there are many monks who "study their whole lives", and yet really have not been born again or saved. They are just as lost as unbelievers who are not monks. It's a mistake to think that monks get special "brownie points" for their sacrifices and their asceticism. Colossians 2:23 So yes, it is possible that your sister-in-law knows a lot more truth than many monks.

Dwight: Being born again is a supernatural experience, which can only happen by the Spirit of God. John 3:6-7 Your entire post places a lot of emphasis on knowledge, studying, having proofs, etc. Obviously those things have their place, but without the Holy Spirit of God working on our hearts, and our responding to Him, we could never be born again and have that assurance that we are saved. As many have said, this is a relationship with our Father in heaven, not a contest to see who is the smartest.

Dwight: Obviously there are many interpretations of non-essential doctrines and I agree with you that not all of them are correct. So we must all be fully convinced in our own mind (Romans 14:5), with Bible study and prayer, as to what our interpretation is regarding non-essential doctrines, and we must remain humble and teachable, so we can be ready to change our position, if we deem it necessary.
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