Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

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steve
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Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by steve » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:21 am

You may have noticed that most (perhaps all) of the mp3 resources posted at thenarrowpath.com can also be found here at theos.org/media. Some of my debates have recently been added over at the site to the "topical lectures" category. Also, I often have people writing and asking for my "statement of faith." There is now a basic statement of faith posted over there as well (there is more detail about my beliefs embedded in my bio over there as well.

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Sean
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by Sean » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:36 am

I saw the debate with Douglas Wilson and listened to it. Interesting debate. Thanks for sharing. :)
He will not fail nor be discouraged till He has established justice in the earth. (Isaiah 42:4)

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AaronBDisney
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by AaronBDisney » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:11 pm

Sweet! I can't wait to hear that Wilson debate. Two worthy opponents for sure. I really respect Wilson. I love his discussions with Hitchens, but I don't like his Calvinism. Thanks, Steve!

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darinhouston
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by darinhouston » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:50 am

Working my way through the Wilson debate -- pretty good discussion. One thing interesting from the Perseverance topic -- Wilson's a New Covenant believer (Presbyterian sort of covenant family membership through baptism vs. circumcision).

I think that position may go some distance towards at least providing SOME reasonably alternative views of many of the passages Arminians point to for incompatibility of the traditional Reformed views. However, that just moves the debate to the legitimacy of covenant membership for infant/non-believer covenant baptism.

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by kaufmannphillips » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:23 pm

Hi, Steve,

In your statement of faith, you wrote: "I believe that the Jewish and Christian scriptures of the Old and New Testament are given by inspiration of God, and are thus, when properly understood and applied, profitable and authoritative to the disciple in all matters pertaining to life and godliness."

How will you square this with your recent comment in our discussion that "I claim no supernatural origins for the gospels which they do not claim for themselves. Do they claim any supernatural origins for themselves? Not that I can find, other than their obvious claim that many of the events they record were supernatural events. The authors make no claim for themselves of divine inspiration in the production of their documents, so far as I can discern. Therefore, they would not necessarily be immune to the tendency to make such minor errors as responsible witnesses may sometimes make in writing history."?
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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steve
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by steve » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:06 pm

Now that you call it to my attention, I think I would have been better-advised to have used the word "revelation" to make my point, rather than "inspiration." The two words are not exactly synonymous, though I was thinking of them as if they were.

To my mind, "inspiration of [from] God" can refer to more than one phenomenon. In one sense or another, the writers were, or had been, inspired or else recorded the words and actions of those who were inspired (e.g., of Jesus). A book can thus arise from inspiration, or from a revelation, in more than one manner.

This can speak of oracular inspiration, of course, which is what I believe to be the case with much of the Old Testament prophetic writings (though some of their content was revealed in visions or dreams at some time prior to writing, and there may or may not have been additional supernatural influence in the later act of writing).

Solomon (whom I regard to be the author of the books traditionally attributed to him) should probably not be regarded as a "prophet," per se, but the scripture claims that his unusual capacity for philosophical and practical insight was specially gifted to him by God, which was the result of a revelation of God to him (1 Kings 3:5ff).

"Inspired" writings can also refer to books written by someone who has previously received divine revelations, and later records them. Thus, Paul can write things which he says were "revealed" to him by Jesus Christ, without making any specific claims about any unusual spiritual influence being upon him at the moment of writing (e.g., Gal.1:11-12/ Eph.3:3-4).

The gospels, which we were discussing earlier, were certainly given as a result of revelation. God revealed Himself in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. The Evangelists, in recording these events, are reporting their experience (or that of others close to them) of a revelation made in history—i.e., the incarnation (Luke 1:1-4).

Thus, every part of scripture, in its own way, owes its origins to God's revelation of His mind or of Himself to mankind. That is what I intended to affirm in the statement of faith.

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by kaufmannphillips » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:27 pm

I'll challenge your diction when it comes to texts being "given" - whether by inspiration or revelation - when it appears that they are simply responding to inspiration and/or revelation. Let us imagine that Pontius Pilate has a favored astrologer, who writes down observations of Jesus in his appearance before the procurator and later in his public execution. Shall we identify his document as "given" by/from/of G-d?

I'll also challenge your diction when it comes to later writings that record a writer's previous revelations. If a text itself has not been inspired, but merely records data external to itself, it may be merely an uninspired account of inspired things.
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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steve
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by steve » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:44 am

I consider that all the books have been given as a gift from God, who commissioned the prophets and apostles, and who revealed to them the things that they wrote. If these phenomena do not fall within the wording I used, I welcome suggestions as to the most succinct manner in which a single statement can encompass all the data. Better wording can be inserted, if it is more desirable.

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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by kaufmannphillips » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:21 pm

It is dubious for one man to attempt to articulate the faith of another. But how about working with your first sentence:

"[T]he books [of the Old and New Testaments] have been given as a gift from God, who commissioned the prophets and apostles, and who revealed to them the things that they wrote."

The statement might need further work, on a few points:

(a) Do you hold that all books of the Old and New Testaments were written by prophets and apostles? Esther? Hebrews? Acts? I & II Kings?

(b) Are these books to be seen as direct gifts from G-d, or secondary effects of gifts from G-d? That is, does G-d purpose for books like these to be written, and arrange for such to occur? Or is it rather that G-d gave his world certain persons, who happened to write these books on their own initiative?

(c) Unless you wish to telegraph a plenary verbal revelation, the closing should be revised. Perhaps, "and who revealed to them the things that they wrote about."
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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darinhouston
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Re: Additions to thenarrowpath.com website

Post by darinhouston » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:40 pm

The Wilson debate was good -- I especially enjoyed the last two tapes which were a bit difficult to hear -- if there are better versions out there, there were some things I couldn't make out that I'd love to go back and listen to.

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