Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

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brody196
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Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

Post by brody196 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:48 pm

While talking with a brother on the subject of entertainment and the Christian life, Steve mentioned "Set the trumpet to thy mouth" by David Wilkerson. This book had a huge impact on me when I first read it 11 years ago(The year I was saved). I am sure that it has several things in it that are probably questionable as far as theology is concerned, but overall it is a great book on repentance and how a Christian should avoid the many pitfalls that can come through being "lukewarm".

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steve
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Re: Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

Post by steve » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:23 pm

True

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Ian
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Re: Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

Post by Ian » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:00 am

I want to give David Wilkerson full assent. His good works shame mine by comparison. But is he a prophet? Thirty years ago I heard a taped sermon of his that he called "how to prepare for the coming calamities". But those calamities did not come. Nearly a full generation has passed and many of the hearers of that message in that room will have since passed away. I feel like a scoffer in Noah`s time writing this. But how does David Wilkerson get around the issue? If he warned those listeners then with such a raised voice, should those listeners not since wonder?

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Re: Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

Post by steve » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:20 am

David Wilkerson seems to have made a number of false prophecies over the past 40 years. I have noted them at the times, and ceased to take his prophecies seriously after his 70s book "The Vision." It is a shame that, as one of Pentecostal culture, he seems to feel compelled to "prophesy" and has that common Pentecostal carelessness about claiming to be prophesying.

It is truly a flaw (as we all have some). I don't want to cut him too much slack about it, but I consider it to be a weakness arising from his cultural upbringing more than anything like the deliberate deceptiveness of a false prophet. Paul said prophecies need to be judged. Apparently, even in the church, Paul knew that some would think themselves to be prophesying but would be wrong.

Despite this flaw, David is a godly and heroic Christian man, in my estimation. He has preached mightily and effectively. I think his ministry would be much more pure and effective if he would cease to "prophesy" and simply continue to preach.

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Ian
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Re: Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

Post by Ian » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:48 am

The problem is, Steve, that here`s a man whose heart is clearly in the right place, and yet he`s seemingly got this part wrong. His discernment seems to be off kilter and it`s damaging. It`s the kind of thing with which a Sam Harris would have a field day. Why doesn`t God protect him and the Church from that? I don`t understand it. And if a Dave Wilkerson can get things so wrong, then so can I.

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brody196
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Re: Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

Post by brody196 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:28 pm

Hi Ian,

I know your post was directed towards Steve, but I would love to respond to your concerns.
The problem is, Steve, that here`s a man whose heart is clearly in the right place, and yet he`s seemingly got this part wrong.
As far as the prophecies are concerned, I believe that David should repent of these things and be a little more careful when prophesying. However, I do not feel that this negates his sincere love for Jesus and his powerful ministry of preaching repentance to a largely lukewarm church.
His discernment seems to be off kilter and it`s damaging. It`s the kind of thing with which a Sam Harris would have a field day.


I see your point, but I don't think it is anymore damaging than when Christians proclaim the resurrection of Jesus, or any other super natural event. The truth is, an atheist will always object to the Christian worldview on the grounds of his/her presupposition of anti-super-naturalism.
Why doesn`t God protect him and the Church from that? I don`t understand it. And if a Dave Wilkerson can get things so wrong, then so can I.
God has provided the church with plenty of tools to combat this kind of stuff. 1 Cor 14:29, Duet 13, and 1 Thess 5:20 give plenty of info on how to deal with prophecies and such. If you are asking why God does not miraculously intervene and stop every false prophecy that is uttered, then I suppose that could be answered several ways.. Maybe God allows such things to test His people and see if their hearts really belong to Him or not?(Duet 13:3) Or perhaps God does not intervene because He is giving the prophet time to repent of his sin and set things right(Rev 2:21)..

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Ian
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Re: Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

Post by Ian » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:25 am

Hi Brody,

You wrote:
Maybe God allows such things to test His people and see if their hearts really belong to Him or not?(Duet 13:3)
At first glance I thought that was very feasible, but there the "prophet" is exhorting the hearers to follow "other gods" whereas Dave Wilkerson is not.

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brody196
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Re: Steve mentioned a great book on the 1/11/11 broadcast.

Post by brody196 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:20 pm

Ian wrote:Hi Brody,

You wrote:
Maybe God allows such things to test His people and see if their hearts really belong to Him or not?(Duet 13:3)
At first glance I thought that was very feasible, but there the "prophet" is exhorting the hearers to follow "other gods" whereas Dave Wilkerson is not.
You're right, I should have clarified a bit more. I believe that there are many people in the church who, in moments of carnality may utter prophecies that are not from God. For this reason, Paul admonished the Corinthian church to "judge"(1 Cor 14)the prophecies that are spoken. If a person gives a bad one, he/she should repent and be more careful. I do not believe that David is a false prophet, I just think that he made some bad calls. I wonder what he would say if someone approached him on this stuff?

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