Christ is back He is here!!!!!! Wakeup!!!!!

[Perry]

jriccitelli,

I do not doubt that you consider yourself qualified to poke fun of these people. Nor will I debate the efficacy of humor in teaching lessons.

No doubt you think I should, as you say, “lighten up”. I expect that, like Brody, you see in me some defect because I’m unwilling to join in the merriment at the expense of these poor people, and I have even gone so far as to suggest that maybe such “humor” is ill-considered.

I understand that you were just trying to make a point, and I do not attribute any ill motives to you for the OP. But maybe, just maybe, some lessons are best learned by judicious application of a wet blanket.

[TK]

It would seem that the followers of this joker are willfully deceived-- as opposed to being "tricked" into following him. Thus, deception may not even be the right word.

I mean, how could any reasonable person actually believe this guy is really Jesus Christ?

There are various reasons why people might follow something they know in the heart of hearts could not be true-- perceived personal benefit being one of those things.

I think true "end times" deception will be much more insidious than this, and is likely already occuring in the form of "lying signs and wonders" taking place in conjunction with ministries that are very successful and seem to be pursuing God wholeheartedly. It is the mixture that is so insidious and deceptive.

TK

[brody196]

Brody,
The above statement of mine was too flippant, and I apologize for that. Also, I should have acknowledged your apology

Its all good. This subject means a lot you, so you have every right to be upset if this is something that truly bothers you.

Finally, I don’t want you to think I’m trying to draw you into a discussion that you don’t want to be involved in, but I would like to submit the following question for your consideration:

Do you think spiritual tyranny is less egregious than physical tyranny or that the damage caused by it is less severe?

I'm cool with discussing this or any other subject as long as no one gets offended. As to your question, I think that spiritual tyranny is worse than physical, as the spiritual things have eternal consequences. But I do not believe that applies here. The followers of this modern day Jesus have willingly subjected themselves to it, they were not, in any way forced.

[jeremiah]

hey brody,
how would these people's self-subjection change this being genuine spiritual tyranny? didn't the tax collectors and prostitutes willingly engage in their folly? or paul in his, before he was converted? i don't think anybody's heart (in this thread) is bad in this. but i do think perry is correct.
grace and peace...

[brody196]

hey brody,
how would these people's self-subjection change this being genuine spiritual tyranny? didn't the tax collectors and prostitutes willingly engage in their folly? or paul in his, before he was converted? i don't think anybody's heart (in this thread) is bad in this. but i do think perry is correct.
grace and peace...

Because the word "tyranny" implies that there is a tyrant. Now I am not denying that the fake Jesus in this case is a false teacher/prophet, but he isn't going out there and forcing anybody to follow him. He simply delivers his message and has managed to attract a following. It is no different than an Ellen White, Joe Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Emperor Julius, Etc.. Is it sad that people are gullible? You bet, but to assume that this is a case of innocent people being unwillingly subjected to a tyrant is a bad assumption.

The followers in this case made a conscience decision to follow a "Different Christ", and while that is unfortunate, it still has a certain element of humor in it. Just like the guy that called Steve's program regarding Rev Sun Moon and his wacky view that Vegas would be turned into "Sun city". In a similar vein, I have always found the Mormon beliefs funny. I nearly busted my gut when I found out about the magical underwear that certain Mormon men wear. I would treat neither group(Mormon-Fake Jesus followers)any different if I encountered them. I would share the gospel with them and show them all the love I could muster up. That does not mean that I would never crack up when someone mentions magic underwear or angels named Moroni...

[Perry]

Brody and TK,

You have both suggested that those who’ve fallen into this particular trap are somehow culpable, that they are, you say, “willfully” following him. To me, this seems to imply not only an initial culpability, but also an ongoing one. For some this may be true, but I would suggest for many, probably most, this is not the case at all. I think most of them are simply deceived. By definition, someone who is deceived doesn’t know it.

Let’s look at it this way. What is it that keeps you and me from falling for this guy? Is it our superior intellect? I imagine some of his millions (as stated in the video but possibly hyperbole) of followers are smarter than us. Or consider Mormons if you prefer. At around 6,000,000 in the US alone, I suspect that a few of them are smarter than you or me, and yet still they remain deceived in their theology. Intellect is probably not the answer.

Is it our superior orthodoxy? The obvious answer is “Of course! We’re right, they’re wrong. That’s what orthodoxy IS after all.” But please take a moment to consider how we arrived (are arriving) at our orthodoxy. Was it through some great virtue of our own that we discovered our correct theological opinions? Maybe a little. I suspect we have differences of opinion on how much of the credit we each deserve for this. (I can say, honestly, for me... not very much.) It seems to me like you are suggesting that these people are, by and large, “willingly” walking into heresy. I would say that they have “fallen” into it, and they they are being victimized by a charlatan. (For the Mormons I would say it has more to do with a system, almost a machine if you will, as the initial charlatan is long gone.) I am not of the “blame the victim” school of thought.

Do you guys even believe that there ARE victims of cults, or are they all just willing participants?

Would you say that Mormon children, indoctrinated as they are from earliest childhood into their belief system, “willfull” in their incorrect theology, or have they simply been deceived? What about Jehovah’s Witnesses?

And finally, even of they ARE willing participants, how does that make them a more seemly target for our jocularity? Are those who walk willingly off the face of the cliff somehow funnier than those who stumble over the edge? If you think they are, then I suggest you pay a visit to the broken bodies at the bottom.

Honestly, I don’t feel like it’s my sensibilities that need to be educated here.

[Perry]

Brody,

Wow. I just read your latest post. I doubt we're going to get anywhere on this. I can't tell you how profoundly disappointing I found that post to be. All I can do is repeat what I said earlier. Where you see occasion for levity, I see occasion for tears.

[brody196]

Brody and TK,

You have both suggested that those who’ve fallen into this particular trap are somehow culpable, that they are, you say, “willfully” following him. To me, this seems to imply not only an initial culpability, but also an ongoing one. For some this may be true, but I would suggest for many, probably most, this is not the case at all. I think most of them are simply deceived. By definition, someone who is deceived doesn’t know it.

Deceived they are, but were they forced to become followers of a false Christ??? Nope. Whatever the reason was, are we to assume that no humor can be found in this situation?

Let’s look at it this way. What is it that keeps you and me from falling for this guy? Is it our superior intellect? I imagine some of his millions (as stated in the video but possibly hyperbole) of followers are smarter than us. Or consider Mormons if you prefer. At around 6,000,000 in the US alone, I suspect that a few of them are smarter than you or me, and yet still they remain deceived in their theology. Intellect is probably not the answer.

There are many reasons why a person makes the choices they do, but in this case, it is as clear as day for those who can read plain English. Matthew 24: "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. I would bargain that his followers are persuaded to stay away from the bible, because a simply stroll through the gospels is plenty enough to make them run for the hills.

Is it our superior orthodoxy? The obvious answer is “Of course! We’re right, they’re wrong. That’s what orthodoxy IS after all.” But please take a moment to consider how we arrived (are arriving) at our orthodoxy. Was it through some great virtue of our own that we discovered our correct theological opinions? Maybe a little. I suspect we have differences of opinion on how much of the credit we each deserve for this. (I can say, honestly, for me... not very much.) It seems to me like you are suggesting that these people are, by and large, “willingly” walking into heresy. I would say that they have “fallen” into it, and they they are being victimized by a charlatan. (For the Mormons I would say it has more to do with a system, almost a machine if you will, as the initial charlatan is long gone.) I am not of the “blame the victim” school of thought.

I don't subscribe to the whole "orthodoxy" thing as a platform to judge others, as I am deemed "dangerous and unorthodox" by several Christian leaders in my community. And I hope this doesn't offend, but in many cases the victim has just as much to be at fault for. It's not an easy pill to swallow, but you and I both know that men and women often make choices that ruin their lives all the while knowing full well the consequences of such actions.

Do you guys even believe that there ARE victims of cults, or are they all just willing participants?

I do believe that there are victims of cults, but let me ask, do you believe that every person is an innocent victim?

Would you say that Mormon children, indoctrinated as they are from earliest childhood into their belief system, “willfull” in their incorrect theology, or have they simply been deceived? What about Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Children that have been indoctrinated is no laughing matter. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought it was...Maybe you are reading a bit to much into this.

And finally, even of they ARE willing participants, how does that make them a more seemly target for our jocularity? Are those who walk willingly off the face of the cliff somehow funnier than those who stumble over the edge? If you think they are, then I suggest you pay a visit to the broken bodies at the bottom.

I am sure that you have read 1 King's 18, where Elijah even had to mock the stupidity of false religions. Do you think he was out of line?

Honestly, I don’t feel like it’s my sensibilities that need to be educated here.

I am not here to change your mind on that brother, I just don't see the big deal in OP making a joke about a false teacher.

[TK]

Yeah, Perry.. I understand what you are saying.

But when I watch that video it is so very ridiculous that it almost seems like a hoax- a hoax perpetrated by the Jesus guy and all his followers.

Let me put it this way: if I showed this video to 50 unbelievers that I personally know, I think all of them would say what a load of hogwash. They wouldnt be rushing to follow the guy and turn over their life savings to him.

But you are right-- perhaps there is something about his followers that make them susceptible and of course that is a tragic thing. It just seems to me that if they took just a little of their spare time and read the scriptures perhaps they would receive a sudden reality check. If they have absolutely zero background in Christianity and never opened a Bible, perhaps they could fall for it. But if I were one of them, since my leader claims to be Jesus, I would be reading the Gospels to see what this guy was like back in the day. I don't think they are doing that, but of course I might be wrong about this.

I don't think what is shown on the video is funny-- it just is hard for me to grasp how it it possible. If people fall for false Christs that are this patently false, very rough times are indeed ahead.

TK

[brody196]

Brody,

Wow. I just read your latest post. I doubt we're going to get anywhere on this. I can't tell you how profoundly disappointing I found that post to be. All I can do is repeat what I said earlier. Where you see occasion for levity, I see occasion for tears.

Sorry to disappoint. Maybe we should just "agree to disagree"?