1. Romans 9:12,13
"It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
The man Esau never served the man Jacob. But Edom did serve Israel. And when Jacob first met Esau after his exile what did Jacob say to Esau?
He tells Esau that he Jacob is his Esau's servant:
Genesis 32:4
"He instructed them: This is what you are to say to my master Esau: Your servant Jacob says, I have been staying with Laban and have remained there till now."
And if we follow scripture we will never find a point where the man Jacob served the man Esau.
Which is more clear when one looks at the Genesis text Paul quoted:
Genesis 25:23
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."
So it is clear that this is not about individual election to salvation, but about National election - God choosing a nation/people to serve Him on earth.
Jacob, Esau And National Election
Jacob, Esau And National Election
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"He who learns must suffer.Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God." Aeschylus
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_Les Wright
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The "best theologians" are not necessarily the best candidates to find a solution to the question of free will.
I see no contradiction between the free will of man and God's sovereignty, unless by "God's sovereignty" a person means that every event that occurs has been forordained by God.
I see no contradiction between the free will of man and God's sovereignty, unless by "God's sovereignty" a person means that every event that occurs has been forordained by God.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
I agree with Paidion, that it does little good to appeal to the failure of "the best theologians" concerning the clarity of the Scriptures on the topics of free will and divine sovereignty. For one thing, I doubt that we would find much agreement among theologians as to which among them were the "best." Secondly, the most adept scholars seem to be capable of making the simplest concepts inscrutable.
Theology is a great science, but "theologians" are human beings with opinions and preferences concerning favorite doctrines. Anyone who doubts this has not known many of them! They often see precisely what they have been trained to see or what they wish to see, just as do the rest of us.
If you can find a bright youth, who has no preference as to the outcome of the inquiry, and who pays close attention while reading, and who meditates long and humbly on the scriptures, you may have found one, like the psalmist, who could say, without arrogance, "I have more understanding than all my teachers, for your testimonies are my meditation" (Ps.119:99).
I know of some theologians who have no difficulty explaining the relationship of free will to divine sovereignty (incidentally, they aren't Calvinists). Whether they rank among "the best" or not will have to be left to others to judge. Any theologian who has managed to sort out the biblical relationship of these two concepts would seem to qualify as a "better theologian" than the "best theologians" who remain at a loss to explain or understand it.
Theology is a great science, but "theologians" are human beings with opinions and preferences concerning favorite doctrines. Anyone who doubts this has not known many of them! They often see precisely what they have been trained to see or what they wish to see, just as do the rest of us.
If you can find a bright youth, who has no preference as to the outcome of the inquiry, and who pays close attention while reading, and who meditates long and humbly on the scriptures, you may have found one, like the psalmist, who could say, without arrogance, "I have more understanding than all my teachers, for your testimonies are my meditation" (Ps.119:99).
I know of some theologians who have no difficulty explaining the relationship of free will to divine sovereignty (incidentally, they aren't Calvinists). Whether they rank among "the best" or not will have to be left to others to judge. Any theologian who has managed to sort out the biblical relationship of these two concepts would seem to qualify as a "better theologian" than the "best theologians" who remain at a loss to explain or understand it.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve