Early church and Calvinism

[Guest]

I've heard it posited that not one of the five points of Calvinism can be found anywhere in the three hundred years of church history prior to Agustine.

- Can anyone corrobrate this?
- And does anyone know of places online which give quotations pertaiing to the subject from pre-Augustine church fathers?

[Guest]

I think Augustine first interpreted "original sin " out of Romans 5.12 and that eventually led to the "total depravity" foundation of Calvinism. The problem with "original sin" and/or "total depravity" is how do you reconcile it with Jesus's statements about little children?
"Suffer the little children unto to me FOR SUCH AS THESE is the kingdom of heaven."
If they have original sin or are totally depraved how can they be described as innocents?

[Guest]

I think Augustine first interpreted "original sin " out of Romans 5.12 and that eventually led to the "total depravity" foundation of Calvinism. The problem with "original sin" and/or "total depravity" is how do you reconcile it with Jesus's statements about little children?
"Suffer the little children unto to me FOR SUCH AS THESE is the kingdom of heaven."
If they have original sin or are totally depraved how can they be described as innocents?

In which verse does Jesus describe children as innocent ?

[_Steve]

The innocence of infants is probably referred to, in reference to Molech worship, in Jeremiah 2:34 and 19:4. An age (or maturity level) of accountability seems to be implied in Isaiah 7:16 and Deut.1:39.

As for documenting what the pre-Augustinian fathers did NOT say, this would require demonstarting a universal negative. We would have to cite every word they wrote and say, "See! It's not there anywhere!"

It should be sufficient to say that Calvinists cannot prove that any Christians before Augustine believed the distinctive Calvinistic theology—and if they think their views were believed in those days, the burden of proof rests upon them to demonstrate it from citations.

We can, however, quote the fathers in giving expression to what they did believe. I have posted below (from the notes of my Calvinism lectures) instances of the early fathers expressing their disagreement with the view of meticulous providence that is the basis of all the Calvinist points.

Theodore Beza (1519-1605), Calvin’s successor in Geneva, commenting on Romans 11:2 (“God hath not cast away his people whom he foreknew”) admitted that the Fathers were not in agreement with Calvinism. He wrote:

“Nor are we on any account to listen to the Fathers, who refer this to faith foreseen.”


Here are the actual words of the Fathers themselves:

100-165 AD : Justin Martyr
“God, wishing men and angels to follow his will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness. But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall certainly be punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably (wicked), but not because God created them so. So if they repent all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God.” (Dialogue CXLi )

100-165 AD : Justin Martyr
“We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it be predestinated that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions—whatever they may be.” (First Apology ch.43 )

[About the year 180, Florinus had affirmed that God is the author of sin, which notion was immediately attacked by Ireneaus, who published a discourse entitled: “God, not the Author of Sin.” Florinus’ doctrine reappeared in another form later in Manichaeism, and was always considered to be a dangerous heresy by the early fathers of the church.]

130-200 AD : Irenaeus
“This expression, ‘How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldst not,’ set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free (agent) from the beginning, possessing his own soul to obey the behests of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God...And in man as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice...If then it were not in our power to do or not to do these things, what reason had the apostle, and much more the Lord Himself, to give us counsel to do some things and to abstain from others?” (Against Heresies XXXVII )

150-190 AD : Athenagoras
“men...have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice (for you would not either honor the good or punish the bad; unless vice and virtue were in their own power, and some are diligent in the matters entrusted to them, and others faithless)...”(Embassy for Christians XXIV )

150-200 AD : Clement of Alexandria
“Neither praise nor condemnation, neither rewards nor punishments, are right if the soul does not have the power of choice and avoidance, if evil is involuntary.” (Miscellanies, book 1, ch.17)

154-222 AD : Bardaisan of Syria
“How is it that God did not so make us that we should not sin and incur condemnation? —if man had been made so, he would not have belonged to himself but would have been the instrument of him that moved him...And how in that case, would man differ from a harp, on which another plays; or from a ship, which another guides: where the praise and the blame reside in the hand of the performer or the steersman...they being only instruments made for the use of him in whom is the skill? But God, in His benignity, chose not so to make man; but by freedom He exalted him above many of His creatures.” (Fragments )

155-225 AD : Tertullian
“I find, then, that man was by God constituted free, master of his own will and power; indicating the presence of God’s image and likeness in him by nothing so well as by this constitution of his nature.” (Against Marcion, Book II ch.5 )

185-254 AD : Origen
“This also is clearly defined in the teaching of the church that every rational soul is possessed of free-will and volition.” (De Principiis, Preface )

185-254 AD : Origen
“There are, indeed, innumerable passages in the Scriptures which establish with exceeding clearness the existence of freedom of will.” (De Principiis, Book 3, ch.1 )

250-300 AD : Archelaus
“There can be no doubt that every individual, in using his own proper power of will, may shape his course in whatever direction he chooses.” (Disputation with Manes, secs.32,33 )

260-315 AD : Methodius
“Those [pagans] who decide that man does not have free will, but say that he is governed by the unavoidable necessities of fate, are guilty of impiety toward God Himself, making Him out to be the cause and author of human evils.” (The Banquet of the Ten Virgins, discourse 8, chapter 16 )

312-386 AD : Cyril of Jerusalem
“The soul is self-governed: and though the Devil can suggest, he has not the power to compel against the will. He pictures to thee the thought of fornication: if thou wilt, thou rejectest. For if thou wert a fornicator by necessity then for what cause did God prepare hell? If thou wert a doer of righteousness by nature and not by will, wherefore did God prepare crowns of ineffable glory? The sheep is gentle, but never was it crowned for its gentleness; since its gentle quality belongs to it not from choice but by nature.” (Lecture IV 18 )

347-407 AD : John Chrysostom
“All is in God’s power, but so that our free-will is not lost...it depends therefore on us and on Him. We must first choose the good, and then He adds what belongs to Him. He does not precede our willing, that our free-will may not suffer. But when we have chosen, then He affords us much help...It is ours to choose beforehand and to will, but God’s to perfect and bring to the end.” (On Hebrews, Homily 12 )

[Guest]

Thanks Steve, though you missed some. the following from: http://www.pfrs.org/calvinism/calvin12.html

Tatian (AD110-172) [free will]
"Why are you fated to grasp at things often, and often to die? Die to the world, repudiating the madness that is in it. Live to God, and by apprehending Him lay aside your old nature. We were not created to die, but we die by our own fault. Our free-will has destroyed us; we who were free have become slaves; we have been sold through sin. Nothing evil has been created by God; we Ourselves have manifested wickedness; but we, who have manifested it, are able again to reject it." (Tatian, Address to the Greeks, XI)

Hippolytus (AD170-236) [free will]
"But man, from the fact of his possessing a capacity of self-determination, brings forth what is evil, that is, accidentally; which evil is not consummated except you actually commit some piece of wickedness. For it is in regard of our desiring anything that is wicked, or our meditating upon it, that what is evil is so denominated. Evil had no existence from the beginning, but came into being subsequently. Since man has free will, a law has been defined for his guidance by the Deity, not without answering a good purpose. For if man did not possess the power to will and not to will, why should a law be established? For a law will not be laid down for an animal devoid of reason, but a bridle and a whip; whereas to man has been given a precept and penalty to perform, or for not carrying into execution what has been enjoined. For man thus constituted has a law been enacted by just men in primitive ages." (Hippolytus, Against all Heresies, Bk. X, ch. xxix)

Lactantius (AD260-330) [free will]
"When, therefore, the number of men had begun to increase, God in His forethought, lest the devil, to whom from the beginning He had given power over the earth, should by his subtilty either corrupt or destroy men, as he had done at first, sent angels for the protection and improvement of the human race; and inasmuch as He had given these a free will, He enjoined them above all things not to defile themselves with contamination from the earth, and thus lose the dignity of their heavenly nature." (Lactantius, Divine Institutes, Bk. II, ch. xv)

It's amazing just how deceived the early church were!

[Guest]

Ely,

Thanks for the additional quotes.

[Guest]

Theophilus of Antioch (Second Century), Novatian of Rome (200-258), Archellaus (277), Gregory of Nyssa (335-395), Jerome (347-420), and even the early writings of St. Augustine himself were in agreement with the rest of the early church fathers, which is in opposition to Calvinism. I will quote them later.

[RickC]

Today with Steve on The Narrow Path Radio, Steve and I discussed "the consensus of the Early Church Fathers prior to Auguste w/r/t soteriology." Namely, that before Augustine, the Early Fathers taught "free will."

Steve gave me a tip-off where he had posted quotes from Early Fathers on this consensus,
I found it, and....
am *bumping* the thread for a handy reference (Thanks Steve)!

Have a good evening folks!

[RickC]

I've retrieved the following from this blog:
Classical Arminianism

*** what's [in brackets] are Billy Birch's (blog owner)
=======================================================================

Hermas (150 CE) wrote: "To those whose heart He saw would become pure and obedient to Him, He gave the power to repent with the whole heart [election based on foreknowledge]."

Justin Martyr (160 CE) wrote: "Lest some suppose, from what has been said by us, that we say that whatever occurs happens by a fatal necessity [a denial of exhaustive determinism], because it is foretold as known beforehand, this too we explain . . . And again, unless the human race has the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions."

Tatian (160 CE) wrote: "We were not created to die [a denial of supralapsarianism]. Rather, we die by our own fault. Our free will has destroyed us. We who were free have become slaves. We have been sold through sin. Nothing evil has been created by God. We ourselves have manifested wickedness. But we, who have manifested it, are able again to reject it."

Melito (170 CE) wrote: "There is, therefore, nothing to hinder you from changing your evil manner of life, because you are a free man."

Irenaeus (180 CE) wrote: "But man, being endowed with reason, and in this respect similar to God, having been made free in his will [classical Arminian thought], and with power over himself, is himself his own cause that sometimes he becomes wheat, and sometimes chaff."

Clement of Alexandria (195 CE) wrote: "God ministers eternal salvation to those who cooperate for the attainment of knowledge and good conduct. Since what the commandments direct are in our own power, along with the performance of them, the promise is accomplished . . . Therefore, all having been called, those who are willing to obey have been named 'the called.' For there is no unrighteousness with God . . . To these, prophecy says, 'If you are willing and hear me, you will eat the good things of the land,' proving that choice or refusal depends on ourselves . . We . . . have believed and are saved by voluntary choice."

Tertullian (207 CE) wrote: "I find, then, that man was constituted free by God. He was master of his own will and power . . . For a law would not be imposed upon one who did not have it in his power to render that obedience which is due to law. Nor again, would the penalty of death be threatened against sin, if a contempt of the law were impossible to man in the liberty of his will . . . Man is free, with a will either for obedience or resistance" [a denial of irresistible grace].

Origen (225 CE) wrote: "The apostle in one place does not purport that becoming a vessel to honor or dishonor depends upon God [Rom. 9:21-22; a blatant rejection of Calvinistic thought]. Rather, he refers everything back to ourselves, saying, 'If, then, a man purges himself, he will be a vessel to honor, sanctified, fit for the Master's use, and prepared for every good work' [2 Tim. 2:20-21]."

Hippolytus (225 CE) wrote: "The Word promulgated the divine commandments by declaring them. He thereby turned man from disobedience. He summoned man to liberty through a choice involving spontaneity ~ not by bringing him into servitude by force of necessity [rejection of irresistible grace]."

Cyprian (250 CE) wrote: "The liberty of believing or of not believing is placed in free choice."

Methodius (290 CE) wrote, "God is good and wise. He does what is best. Therefore, there is no fixed destiny" [a denial of unconditional election].

Lactantius (304-313 CE), during those years, wrote: "He who gives commandments for life should remove every method of excuse ~ so He can impose upon men the necessity of obedience. Not by any constraint, but by a sense of shame. Yet, He should do it in a way to leave them freedom, so that a reward may be appointed for those who obey. That is because it was in their power not to obey ~ for it was in their power to obey if they wished."

The Disputation of Archelaus and Manes (320 CE) reads: "Rational creatures have been entrusted with free will. Because of this, they are capable of converting" [a thought made also by Charles Finney].

Alexander of Alexandria (324 CE) wrote: "Natural will is the free faculty of every intelligent nature, as having nothing involuntary pertaining to its essence."
======================================================================

I haven't checked, but some quotes may be repeats from earlier.
Also, I don't consider myself Arminian and, thus, may or may not agree with Billy Birch's 'in brackets'.
Thanks!

[selah]

RickC wrote:

Today with Steve on The Narrow Path Radio, Steve and I discussed "the consensus of the Early Church Fathers prior to Auguste w/r/t soteriology." Namely, that before Augustine, the Early Fathers taught "free will.

RickC,

Thanks for making your call. You sparked within me some questions I've had for a while about early church father's writings in relation to the Jehovah Witnesses doctrines. If you or anyone is interested, I wrote about it on the Jehovah Witness thread.

I've read some of the quotes you posted and now, am going to enjoy the rest of them. Thanks for posting them.

selah*