Hi Michelle,
Well, I wouldn't want my private correspondence posted in a public place without my permission, but if that guy says it's okay, I guess it would be interesting.
I understand your view toward 'online ethics' here, Michelle. Actually, this brief debate ended because he didn't reply to my first reply. I haven't seen him since.
I personally wouldn't feel it would be wrong to post what this guy said - (who I would identify as "Anonymous") - nor that he would be offended if I did, nor that he would be interested in participating or feel a need to defend himself. I don't know why he didn't reply. He started the debate. Perhaps he was stumped? His "proof text" and argumentation were 'typical (standard) Calvinism'...(more on this below, at the end of my post).
I'm intrigued because it's taken me - what, five years? - to get past the idea that my thoughts are inane and my questions are dumb (although on that last one, I still label them as such.) Now I'm intrigued that I could sail right past dumb, into wrong territory.
I'm also intrigued by the notion of the bible being a huge catechism with all the right questions and answers. I'm just intrigued because I've never run across this notion before.
oO! It looks like I have my homework assignment now! "The Bible as Catechism."
Thanks for the "as iron sharpens iron" and a compliment.
I'll see what I can come up with.
New thread?
On Asking Questions
I have had a similar experience re: things I have questioned or doubted. Recently, in fact. It was more at being honest with myself about the Qs & doubts - that I simply had them - and that they may not go away, or get answered (in this lifetime, anyway). I pray about these things, interestingly enough, after someone suggested adding "theological questions" to one's prayer list. Since I've been praying about this stuff I'm no longer nearly as "uncomfortable" (for lack of vocabulary) about Not-Knowing-Stuff! (cf. INTP personality type!)
Also, there's the old adage:
"The only wrong question is the one that doesn't get asked."
In a sense of meaning, I think I was sort of trying to "hide" my Qs & doubts or just keep them to myself. In my case, this is probably advisable or wise in terms of sharing these with at least some people. But yet I felt a great relief, a catharsis, when I had a deep and prolonged prayer session about this stuff, bringing my concerns and heart before the Lord (an all-nighter, this August). When no one else can understand, God so totally does.....
I'm thinking what I've been talking about might well be described as "Questions 202" (asking the right stuff - at a more advanced level).
I have thought of an example, however. Like, when people ask how much they can sin and still be covered by grace. It's the wrong question, but hopefully they'll get the right answer...
Interesting.
Actually, I was asked this precise question by a co-worker a couple years ago. A young man (about 30ish) who was a backslidden ex-youth group leader in his former Methodist church (he wasn't going to any church, nor thinking much about God, till he met me, he reported).
I don't recall how the conversation(s) began, but do remember "answering with a question" - a method often employed by our Lord Jesus Christ. My co-working friend's initial query was, "How many sins can you get by with and not go to hell?" I asked him (back, something like), "How many good things do you think we have to do to go to heaven?" He didn't have a reply and said he'd have to think about it for a while, to which I consented was admirable. As days passed, I kept asking and asking things to see "where he was at." Finally he broke down and told me he was living with his girlfriend, knew it was wrong, and they were expecting a child. At some point I was able to testify of God's grace in my life. That I know about backsliding first hand - (how I bombed out of Bible college with only 11 hours to go for a B.A. in Bible/theology, later becoming an alcoholic, other). We talked more, as time permitted on the job. Not long later, I got notice I would be laid off at the end of the week.
On my last day he thanked me (almost in tears), saying he and his girlfriend decided to get married in his (former) church, that he was making arrangements to be baptized, and that many in his family and he "have been talking about God a lot since you and I met." So, Praise the Lord! I haven't seen him since but he appeared to be 'genuinely genuine'. He's on my prayer list somewhere (i keep old ones), and I will pray for "Jeremy" again this evening. In fact, I think he lives in the town I moved to in February, come to think of it! (I may look him up)!
Or when people bring up seeming contradictions in the Bible. That might not be a wrong question, though, but it could lead to the wrong answer, I guess.
It can get pretty technical here.
On another thread recently (about apologetics) Steve and others commented on this. You've probably seen the different approaches. When I'm challenged by atheists or asked about my faith, my personal approach is the same as above. I don't debate atheists, per se. My testimony, and that the Bible says people saw Jesus alive again is about as far as I go on "ideas." Related to this thread's direction; I don't recall any of the Apostles debating atheists or
specifically against atheism to be more exact. (Note: an "atheist" in the first century usually referred to one who has a different religion than one's own. The vast majority of folks back then believed in God and/or the gods. So our modern brands of atheism(s) and/or atheists can be significantly different than back then, though some ancients did deny God exists (cf. Ps 14:1).
My "dialog" approach is what Michael Ramsden (European Director of the Zacharias Trust) calls:
Conversational Apologetics
(an insightful, informative, and truly helpful listen, if you find the time)!
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Back to my very brief email debate.
I could start a new thread on this board and not directly quote my friend (just offer his reasoning and supporting texts, and how I essentially replied).
The 'debate' wasn't as long as this post....(so let me know, okay)?
I could begin as "An anonymous Calvinist said....".
Thanks, Michelle!
