1. A 20 something year old girl commits suicide- she was a drug addict
2. Her mother, also a drug user, is understandably distraught and guilt-ridden
3. A few days earlier, a very good friend of mine who is a strong and compassionate believer strikes a metal object in the roadway and tears off a piece of molding from the side of his van.
4. A few days later my friend takes his van to where he bought it to see about getting it fixed. He is told to drive back to a garage/junkyard area to talk to a guy back there.
5. The guy, who my friend described as a ZZ Top looking character, just happens to have that exact piece of molding on another junked van.
6. While the guy is putting on the piece of molding, he takes a phone call in the presence of my friend, and is visibly shaken.
7. The man had just been advised of the girl's suicide, and that the girl's mother, distraught, may be on ther verge of suicide herself.
8. He somehow had heard that my friend was a believer. He asked my friend if he would be willing to counsel this woman, as he does not know what kind of counsel to give. Of course my friend said that he would be more than willing to do so.
At what point did God become involved in this scenario? Was He involved in #1? If not, was He involved in my friend striking the object in the road, thus setting up the course of events leading him to be present when this man took the phone call?
My friend and I were talking about this yesterday, the seeming orchestration of events, etc and I thought this would be a great topic for this forum.
TK
Food for Heavy Chewing
Re: Food for Heavy Chewing
Interesting subject/question
In a sense, I would say God was involved all the way through. I imagine you are interested in speculating as to the sort of involvement. I often think of this verse...
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Of course, God can prepare a good work for us by allowing (but not actively causing) bad situations to come about because He sees them as opportunities for a greater good to be done. Who knows how God dealt with the daughter (we know God is merciful), but even we can see how such a situation could potentially turn the mother's life around.
God could also cause bad situations. I don't think any of us would feel comfortable saying God caused the daughter and mother to become drug addicts. But we'd seemingly be more open to the idea that God caused your friend to hit something on the road and require his presence at the time of the phone call.
I myself would see 1-4 simply as realities of our fallen world. But since your friend is part of the new world (The Kingdom of God), it became an opportunity for a good work.
I think the most interesting part is how 'ZZ Top' knew your friend was a believer. Do you have any more detail on that?
All in all, I don't really have anything insightful to share, but I thought the topic deserved a comment!
In a sense, I would say God was involved all the way through. I imagine you are interested in speculating as to the sort of involvement. I often think of this verse...
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Of course, God can prepare a good work for us by allowing (but not actively causing) bad situations to come about because He sees them as opportunities for a greater good to be done. Who knows how God dealt with the daughter (we know God is merciful), but even we can see how such a situation could potentially turn the mother's life around.
God could also cause bad situations. I don't think any of us would feel comfortable saying God caused the daughter and mother to become drug addicts. But we'd seemingly be more open to the idea that God caused your friend to hit something on the road and require his presence at the time of the phone call.
I myself would see 1-4 simply as realities of our fallen world. But since your friend is part of the new world (The Kingdom of God), it became an opportunity for a good work.
I think the most interesting part is how 'ZZ Top' knew your friend was a believer. Do you have any more detail on that?
All in all, I don't really have anything insightful to share, but I thought the topic deserved a comment!
Re: Food for Heavy Chewing
Hi Matt-
I appreciate your response. I tend to agree with what you have said.
The ZZ Top guy knew my friend is a believer because the car dealer who sold my friend his van must have told the guy (the car dealer knows) and I think he must have told the guy my friend is a believer (and a pastor).
God's orchestration of events like these, in light of free will, is indeed an interesting topic to think about.
I appreciate your response. I tend to agree with what you have said.
The ZZ Top guy knew my friend is a believer because the car dealer who sold my friend his van must have told the guy (the car dealer knows) and I think he must have told the guy my friend is a believer (and a pastor).
God's orchestration of events like these, in light of free will, is indeed an interesting topic to think about.
Re: Food for Heavy Chewing
My position is that God's work involvement in the world in more than 90% of cases is his work in the hearts and minds of His people.
So I would say that in all likelihood, God began to be involved when your friend agreed to counsel the woman. It may have been coincidental that he happened to be there so that he could be asked to do that.
If he hadn't been there, and God wanted to help the woman, I think He would have chosen another person who was in fact available.
So I would say that in all likelihood, God began to be involved when your friend agreed to counsel the woman. It may have been coincidental that he happened to be there so that he could be asked to do that.
If he hadn't been there, and God wanted to help the woman, I think He would have chosen another person who was in fact available.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Food for Heavy Chewing
I agree. I notice a lot of Christians think that God is going around wiggling His nose to make things happen. But I think God rather works through people in 'people' situations (as maybe opposed to the things we call 'acts of God'....hurricanes, tornado's, etc). These opportunities to be used by God just happen to us all now and then.
It's the "Christ in you" that I believe was the spirit working in your friend when he responded to the need for the mother's counseling. Not magic that God orchestrated.
It's the "Christ in you" that I believe was the spirit working in your friend when he responded to the need for the mother's counseling. Not magic that God orchestrated.