Is Alice Cooper an argument for sovereign election?

[Ian]

Prior to his becoming a Christian Alice Cooper was freed from alcoholism from one moment to the next.

By and large alcoholics are not freed miraculously from their malady. He was a comparatively rare exception. Was he destined to become a Christian (à la Calvin)?

If he was freed, why aren`t many others?

[TK]

Hi Ian--

Can you refine your question a bit? I am not exactly sure that you are getting at.

Thanks!

TK

[Ian]

Hi TK,

I suppose I mean this:
Alice Cooper received a special gift from God that most alcoholics do not - he was freed from it from one moment to the next.
He claims to have abysmal willpower, which makes it even more amazing. It`s like he was selected out for special treatment in this regard. And a Calvinist would jump right in and say, well, there you have it, further proof that God elects some and not others, (because it clearly made him more open to God and subsequently receiving Christ than he would have been).
Now to one inclined to a form of Christian Universalism, like say Paidion or Steve7150,then it`s a non-issue. But the Arminianist might have a harder time fitting this into his paradigm, likewise with Paul`s experience on the road to Damascus.
I`m not a Calvinist by any stretch of the imagination but do such cases not throw a spanner in the works for an Arminianist or even Inclusivist theologian?

[backwoodsman]

I`m not a Calvinist by any stretch of the imagination but do such cases not throw a spanner in the works for an Arminianist or even Inclusivist theologian?

Not at all. It creates no problem for Arminians, or anyone else as far as I can see. All it proves is that God works differently with each person, according to what He knows will be most effective or most helpful. Many have experienced the same instant healing as Cooper did, either before or after being saved, and many haven't. For those who don't, my assumption, and I think the common view, is that God knows either that it wouldn't work to influence them toward salvation anyway, or that the struggle and practice at self-control will do them good.

[Ian]

Backwoodsman wrote:
God knows either that it wouldn't work to influence them toward salvation anyway, or that the struggle and practice at self-control will do them good

I`ve no problem with the second part, as it relates to people who`ve become believers.

The first part is speculation based on pre-suppositions. Someone very close to me died from alcohol abuse. I believe if that person had been dramatically delivered in the way Alice was, that person would have turned spiritually.

[backwoodsman]

I'm sorry for your loss; I can understand how something like that could make one wonder why God didn't do more for the person.

But I'd suggest that it's your belief that the person would've turned to God that's speculation based on a presupposition. One always hopes for that; but the harsh reality is, some people see and experience miracle after miracle and still never yield to God, while others turn to Him without seeing any miracles at all. I believe scripture is clear that God does all He can to save each person, so if He didn't do a particular thing with a particular person, I can only conclude that He knew it wouldn't help.

Another possibility is that someone does turn to God, and God knows that for whatever reason they won't hold onto their salvation, so in His mercy He takes them while they're still saved. For all we know, this could happen within just a few moments of soft-heartedness on the person's part.

[TK]

I believe scripture is clear that God does all He can to save each person, so if He didn't do a particular thing with a particular person, I can only conclude that He knew it wouldn't help.

I agree; the flip side of the Alice Cooper situation are the millions of people who die from alcoholism or drug abuse. I cannot hold to the idea that God keeps them in this condition because He does not want them saved. Perhaps God chose a dramatic deliverance for Mr. Cooper because of the influence he might have. I have often wondered what would happen if someone like Howard Stern was radically saved, and if he became as vocal for God as he is now about less savory things.

Addiction is a terrible thing-- but I think in the end a person does make a choice to use alcohol or drugs, although in the very worst cases it would seem that they FEEL they have no choice. Repentance and surrender should begin the process or "renewing our mind" so that the hold on addictive things releases its grip, albeit sometimes very slowly.

And there are many many "addictions" we have that are less dramatic than alcohol or drugs. Being addicted to "looking out for number one" or judging others is just as sinful and a lot more common, even among believers.

So we all have choices to make and all of our minds need to be renewed on an ongoing basis.

TK

[Singalphile]

I don't see how his experience could be responsibly used to support either either view, as I understand them.

Also, he is still alive. More than one celebrity became a Christian (or announced his Christianity) and then fell away, I think. It may be the same with Alice Cooper. I don't expect it or hope it. I don't know anything about him. I'm just saying.

[Ian]

It may be the same with Alice Cooper.

Seems pretty solid to me, Singalphile. Scroll to the bottom for a heartwarming interview:

http://www.godscare.net/witness/alice_cooper.htm

[Singalphile]

Yeah, it does, Ian. Good article and interview. The other articles on that site are interesting too. Thanks.