Calvinism and the Middle Voice
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
Hi Paidion,
What you say regarding the Greek middle, following Mounce, is no more than an assertion of opinion. It would do you good to read the following (you might want to skip down to about page 13, Chapter 2):
https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hi ... oice01.pdf
What you say regarding the Greek middle, following Mounce, is no more than an assertion of opinion. It would do you good to read the following (you might want to skip down to about page 13, Chapter 2):
https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hi ... oice01.pdf
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
I have examined this pdf as well as others. There is simply disagreement among grammarians about whether, in Hellenistic Greek, the middle voice is sometimes used in a reflexive sense. You choose to believe those who say there is, and I take the opposite stance. I guess we will leave it at that.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
Paidion,
Good enough brother.
I do believe that those prepared for destruction bear the responsibility for their plight.
Good enough brother.
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
Homer, I do believe you have made a persuasive case. Thanks for doing the research on the middle voice, and for sharing it here. I believe it also has ramifications (again, with reference to Calvinism) in interpreting the middle voice of "tasso", in Acts 13:48.
In this passage, tasso is often translated as "appointed"— "as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." (NKJV, NASB, NIV, NET, ESV). Other translations cast off all restraint, and paraphrase it with even more-Calvinistic-sounding options, such as "chosen" (NLT) or "destined" (NRSV).
When the same word (tasso) is used in 1 Corinthians 16:15, it is usually rendered "devoted [themselves]" (NKJV, NASB, ESV, RSV, NRSV, NIV, NET, AMP, HCSB, Mounce Reverse Interlinear), or, occasionally, "set [themselves]" (YLT, ASV, Vine, Zodhiates).
Both passages (Acts 13:48 and 1 Cor.16:15) use the middle voice of tasso. The occurrence in 1 Corinthians ["they have devoted themselves to the ministry of the saints"] is undoubtedly reflexive, and proves it by adding the pronoun "themselves." James White insists, as Paidion does, that the verb, when occurring in Acts 13:48, cannot be reflexive, because it there lacks the pronoun. My contention is that it can be reflexive in that verse, as well—with or without the pronoun.
The examples you have provided (Matthew 27:5; Mark 7:4; to which we could add John 18:18), along with the divided opinions of the scholars, would seem to vindicate my belief about this, demonstrating that there are, indeed, cases in scripture where the reflexivity of the middle voice does not require the pronoun. This fact would seemingly allow Acts 13:48 to read: "as many as were [self-]devoted to eternal life believed."
Calvinists hate this suggestion, but it renders verse 48 consonant with verse 46, where Paul says that his detractors in the synagogue "judged [them]selves unworthy of eternal life." In that case, the pronoun is present, and might be thought to govern the middle voice of the similar phrase in verse 48. If the middle voice is capable, at times, of being reflexive by itself (i.e., in the absence of the reflexive pronoun), it may have been taken for granted that the use of the pronoun, in verse 46, would itself suggest the implied pronoun two verses later.
As an aside:
Paidion's contention that Matthew 27:5 does not count as an instance of reflexivity in the middle voice, absent the pronoun, seems to miss the point. He is saying that the word apancho (Judas' "hanged himself") does not count, even though there is no pronoun, because the word itself (he says) means to "hang oneself." But surely this is missing the point. The lexicons say that the word simply means to "strangle" or "choke." In the active voice, this would be used transitively, of strangling another person or animal. However, the lexicons point out that in the middle voice, it means to "hang oneself." In other words, the lexicons say that the term is reflexive, only when in the middle voice—which makes your point and mine. The middle voice can make a verb reflexive with, or without, the pronoun being added.
In this passage, tasso is often translated as "appointed"— "as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." (NKJV, NASB, NIV, NET, ESV). Other translations cast off all restraint, and paraphrase it with even more-Calvinistic-sounding options, such as "chosen" (NLT) or "destined" (NRSV).
When the same word (tasso) is used in 1 Corinthians 16:15, it is usually rendered "devoted [themselves]" (NKJV, NASB, ESV, RSV, NRSV, NIV, NET, AMP, HCSB, Mounce Reverse Interlinear), or, occasionally, "set [themselves]" (YLT, ASV, Vine, Zodhiates).
Both passages (Acts 13:48 and 1 Cor.16:15) use the middle voice of tasso. The occurrence in 1 Corinthians ["they have devoted themselves to the ministry of the saints"] is undoubtedly reflexive, and proves it by adding the pronoun "themselves." James White insists, as Paidion does, that the verb, when occurring in Acts 13:48, cannot be reflexive, because it there lacks the pronoun. My contention is that it can be reflexive in that verse, as well—with or without the pronoun.
The examples you have provided (Matthew 27:5; Mark 7:4; to which we could add John 18:18), along with the divided opinions of the scholars, would seem to vindicate my belief about this, demonstrating that there are, indeed, cases in scripture where the reflexivity of the middle voice does not require the pronoun. This fact would seemingly allow Acts 13:48 to read: "as many as were [self-]devoted to eternal life believed."
Calvinists hate this suggestion, but it renders verse 48 consonant with verse 46, where Paul says that his detractors in the synagogue "judged [them]selves unworthy of eternal life." In that case, the pronoun is present, and might be thought to govern the middle voice of the similar phrase in verse 48. If the middle voice is capable, at times, of being reflexive by itself (i.e., in the absence of the reflexive pronoun), it may have been taken for granted that the use of the pronoun, in verse 46, would itself suggest the implied pronoun two verses later.
As an aside:
Paidion's contention that Matthew 27:5 does not count as an instance of reflexivity in the middle voice, absent the pronoun, seems to miss the point. He is saying that the word apancho (Judas' "hanged himself") does not count, even though there is no pronoun, because the word itself (he says) means to "hang oneself." But surely this is missing the point. The lexicons say that the word simply means to "strangle" or "choke." In the active voice, this would be used transitively, of strangling another person or animal. However, the lexicons point out that in the middle voice, it means to "hang oneself." In other words, the lexicons say that the term is reflexive, only when in the middle voice—which makes your point and mine. The middle voice can make a verb reflexive with, or without, the pronoun being added.
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
Steve, where did you get this idea? Actually, neither of the passages use the middle voice. In Acts 13:48, "τασσω" is in the passive voice. The word is a perfect passive participle. In 1 Cor 16:15, "τασσω" is in the active voice; it is an aorist active indicative. Also the reflexive pronoun "εατους" is used in connection with it. That word is correctly translated as "themselves."Steve,you wrote:Both passages (Acts 13:48 and 1 Cor.16:15) use the middle voice of tasso.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
Steve,
Thanks for the encouraging words!
Paidion,
Please go back and read the OP regarding the middle voice. The point is that it can be understood (in Acts 13:48) to be the middle voice as it is written exactly the same way, whether active or passive. Then the word must be considered in light of the context and according to the "analogy of faith", i.e., according to what one believes the scriptures teach about the subject. This is what is puzzling to me about your position. You are adamantly opposed to Calvinism yet you take the position of James White who ironically has admitted it can be middle but opposes that idea on other grounds.
For a fuller explanation of the point Steve made, See Jack Cottrell's comments here:
http://evangelicalarminians.org/acts-13 ... -explains/
Thanks for the encouraging words!
Paidion,
Please go back and read the OP regarding the middle voice. The point is that it can be understood (in Acts 13:48) to be the middle voice as it is written exactly the same way, whether active or passive. Then the word must be considered in light of the context and according to the "analogy of faith", i.e., according to what one believes the scriptures teach about the subject. This is what is puzzling to me about your position. You are adamantly opposed to Calvinism yet you take the position of James White who ironically has admitted it can be middle but opposes that idea on other grounds.
For a fuller explanation of the point Steve made, See Jack Cottrell's comments here:
http://evangelicalarminians.org/acts-13 ... -explains/
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
Paidion,
I will retract my statement that 1 Corinthians 16:15 uses the middle voice. I had read (or misread something that gave me that impression) that this was the case. In any case, the verse does use tasso in a reflexive sense, including (as I myself mentioned) the reflexive pronoun.
The idea of tasso being in the middle voice, in 1 Corinthians 16:15, was not a significant concern in my argument, but the verse, by including the pronoun, shows the reflexive possibilities of the word tasso, (which, when translated as "appointed," might seem more like something one person must do to another), adding to the plausibility of it having a reflexive meaning in the middle voice of Acts 13:48. Yes, I knew that most translators take tasso as in the passive voice, in Acts 13:48, but there are scholars who argue for its being understood in the middle, with a reflexive significance, there.
I will retract my statement that 1 Corinthians 16:15 uses the middle voice. I had read (or misread something that gave me that impression) that this was the case. In any case, the verse does use tasso in a reflexive sense, including (as I myself mentioned) the reflexive pronoun.
The idea of tasso being in the middle voice, in 1 Corinthians 16:15, was not a significant concern in my argument, but the verse, by including the pronoun, shows the reflexive possibilities of the word tasso, (which, when translated as "appointed," might seem more like something one person must do to another), adding to the plausibility of it having a reflexive meaning in the middle voice of Acts 13:48. Yes, I knew that most translators take tasso as in the passive voice, in Acts 13:48, but there are scholars who argue for its being understood in the middle, with a reflexive significance, there.
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
Steve (and Homer, too) I also retract my statement that I made as if it were unequivocal, that the voice was a perfect passive participle in Acts 13:38 just because my Online Bible program so declared it.
When we first began to discuss Acts 13:48, I had looked at Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek, and found that perfect participles are identical in form in both the passive and middle voices. Thanks for reminding me of that, Homer. So I knew that, but I forgot it when I questioned you Steve. I have found recently that my 78-year-old mind (79 in February) forgets rather readily. For example, on December 1 at noon, my wife and I attended a retired teachers' Christmas luncheon in town, and then we had a long visit with my sister-in-law (who was married to my brother who recently died). After that we visited one of my daughters. The next day, I was writing in my diary, and asked my wife what we had done in town before visiting my sister-in-law. She looked a little shocked that I could have forgotten so soon the teachers' luncheon we had attended.
So I regret that I came on so strongly about Acts 13:38. I had simply accepted the Online Bible program's pronouncement of the verb as passive, having forgotten that the form of perfect participles are identical in both voices. So I ask you, Homer and Steve, for your understanding and forgiveness.
When we first began to discuss Acts 13:48, I had looked at Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek, and found that perfect participles are identical in form in both the passive and middle voices. Thanks for reminding me of that, Homer. So I knew that, but I forgot it when I questioned you Steve. I have found recently that my 78-year-old mind (79 in February) forgets rather readily. For example, on December 1 at noon, my wife and I attended a retired teachers' Christmas luncheon in town, and then we had a long visit with my sister-in-law (who was married to my brother who recently died). After that we visited one of my daughters. The next day, I was writing in my diary, and asked my wife what we had done in town before visiting my sister-in-law. She looked a little shocked that I could have forgotten so soon the teachers' luncheon we had attended.
So I regret that I came on so strongly about Acts 13:38. I had simply accepted the Online Bible program's pronouncement of the verb as passive, having forgotten that the form of perfect participles are identical in both voices. So I ask you, Homer and Steve, for your understanding and forgiveness.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
No problemo!
Re: Calvinism and the Middle Voice
I recently picked up a nice used copy of "Learn to Read New Testament Greek" by David Alan Black. Black, D. Theol., at the time the book was published, had taught NT Greek at Biola and Talbot Theological for almost twenty years. Regarding the middle voice he wrote:
Black most recently has been at Southeastern Baptist Theological seminary. Perhaps a background as a Baptist would explain why he did not list Romans 9:22 and Acts 13:48 as examples of the reflexive middle or he might understand them as passive."The reflexive middle refers the result of the action of the verb directly to the subject as in Matthew 27:5; "[Judas] hanged himself". Here the reflexive pronoun "himself" does not occur in the Greek; it is implied from the middle voice of the verb. Other New Testament examples of the reflexive middle include 1 Corinthians 6:11 ("You washed yourselves") and 2 Corinthians 11:14 ("Satan disguises himself"). The proportion of strictly reflexive middles in the New Testament is actually very small."