A 4th Alternative View of Hell

[mgarrett]

Todd,

And you said:

Doesn't it make more sense for the Father to punish his child while there is still time to correct the offense? If the punishment doesn't happen until after the resurrection it is pointless because it is too late to do anything about it.

But this is only true if justice has no place in God's economy which is an unsupported assumption.

What is justice to you?...or to God? Is spending eternity in punishment for "not believing" in Christ justice? I see no justice in that.

Todd

[mgarrett]

Doesn't it make more sense for the Father to punish his child while there is still time to correct the offense? If the punishment doesn't happen until after the resurrection it is pointless because it is too late to do anything about it.

Why is it to late?

Because your life has passed without enjoying God's spiritual blessings.

Todd

[Guest]

Because your life has passed without enjoying God's spiritual blessings.

But only our physical life here on earth in this age in a corruptable decaying body. Are'nt we all raised with believers given incorruptable bodies and unbelievers raised also although in what type of bodies i don't know.
I'm not clear what you think happens to unbelievers could you just spell it out if you don't mind? Do you think they are raised and then will have the opportunity to bow the knee to Christ and be saved or perish? Where would repentence fit in this system?

[mgarrett]

Because your life has passed without enjoying God's spiritual blessings.

But only our physical life here on earth in this age in a corruptable decaying body. Are'nt we all raised with believers given incorruptable bodies and unbelievers raised also although in what type of bodies i don't know.
I'm not clear what you think happens to unbelievers could you just spell it out if you don't mind? Do you think they are raised and then will have the opportunity to bow the knee to Christ and be saved or perish? Where would repentence fit in this system?

I realize that the 4th view requires a big adjustment in the way one thinks about salvation and eternal life. In one respect Christ is the Savior of the world in that he secured the resurrection of the whole world. Without Christ there would be no resurrection. In another respect he is the Savior of those who believe because only believers can enjoy His spiritual blessings in this life.

Now I will try to be more specific in answering your question. I think you are asking what happens to unbelievers after the resurrection. What I have said is that there is no more judgment and no more punishment after someone dies physically - this applies to believers and unbelievers. So, is there any difference for them after the resurrection??? I don't know. The Bible gives little information. Christ did say that there is no marriage in the resurrection and that we will be "as the angels in heaven" (Matt 22:30). Paul said, "...And thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thess 4:17). And in 1 Cor 15 Paul said,

1 Cor 15:51-57
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

As far as I know, that's all the information we have about the resurrection. Notice that in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4, which are the most complete descriptions of the resurrection, there is no mention of a judgment - because there is not one.

Todd

[Guest]

Todd--

would it be safe to say that if you are correct in your view, then there is really no need to attempt to evangelize someone who is on their deathbed, or perhaps someone who is simply elderly, because even if they accepted Christ there really is limited time to enjoy God's "spiritual blessings" while they are alive, since the "benefits" while they are alive are all they can really expect to obtain (compared to non-believers)?

i have resisted the temptation to call your 4th view outrageous, but i may be getting to that point. no offense!

TK

[mgarrett]

Todd--

would it be safe to say that if you are correct in your view, then there is really no need to attempt to evangelize someone who is on their deathbed, or perhaps someone who is simply elderly, because even if they accepted Christ there really is limited time to enjoy God's "spiritual blessings" while they are alive, since the "benefits" while they are alive are all they can really expect to obtain (compared to non-believers)?

i have resisted the temptation to call your 4th view outrageous, but i may be getting to that point. no offense!

TK

I would say that while there is still breath it is not too late to know, and find joy, in what Christ has done for us.

I don't take offense, but obviously I don't think it is "outrageous". I do know that it will be very difficult for any Christian to accept because the traditional view has been so widely accepted and taught that it colors the way we interpret the rest of the scriptures. So to make a change would result in a major overhaul of our understanding. Very few people would be willing to consider doing that.

Todd

[mgarrett]

Here is a story of how the "sheep and the goats" might be applied today.

A man named John is moving from his current neighborhood to a new house several miles away. John can't afford a moving service so he is packing and moving everything himself with his pickup truck.

John has two neighbors. The first neighbor goes out to get his Saturday morning paper and notices John struggling with boxes and furniture. He has nothing urgent going on so he offers to help and spends a good part of the day working with John. The second neighbor also sees John struggling but instead of offering to help, he goes back inside to watch TV.

In this scenario, the first neighbor will be rewarded by God with great satisfaction knowing that he shared John's burden that day and made a difference. He goes to bed that night in peace. The second neighbor is convicted by the Holy Spirit because he is wasting his time rather than helping. He feels guilty. The next day he sees John at the store, and because he feels ashamed he avoids John and goes the other way.

This is how I see the "sheep and the goats." The man who helped is rewarded and the man who was self-seeking was punished.

Todd

[Guest]

fof, it makes no sense, some people never suffer worries in their life. It is talking about the coming of the Lord, back to establish His Kingdom, that is the day of the Lord. You seem to have no compass to follow. It is a simple deal in scripture the Church will be Gathered, the war will occur, the kingdom will be established the resurrection of the just into the kingdom, the resurrection of the unjust to die forever, never to exist again. Then Jesus will hand over the Kingdom to God the One True God, The Father, and his mission will have been completed. See 1 Cor. 15.

[mgarrett]

fof, it makes no sense, some people never suffer worries in their life. It is talking about the coming of the Lord, back to establish His Kingdom, that is the day of the Lord. You seem to have no compass to follow. It is a simple deal in scripture the Church will be Gathered, the war will occur, the kingdom will be established the resurrection of the just into the kingdom, the resurrection of the unjust to die forever, never to exist again. Then Jesus will hand over the Kingdom to God the One True God, The Father, and his mission will have been completed. See 1 Cor. 15.

JF,

That scenario is not very "simple" as you say. Also, you are reading a lot into 1 Cor 15 if you see all that there.

Todd

[mgarrett]

.....the war will occur, ...

JF,

It could be that the only war is the one that takes place in the souls of mankind. A tug-of-war of good versus evil.

1 Pet 2:11-12
11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, 12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Eph 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Todd