Help with finding a source

[Perry]

So I see no more reason to think that a man in Hades couldn't feel as though he were burning up and long for water

Wouldn't he be asking for a bit more than a drop for his tongue? I think I'd be asking for a fire hose.

[psimmond]

jeremiah, I agree with you. I just think we need to be careful that we don't assume it can't give factual information about Hades/hell because it is a parable. The fact that other scriptures reference fire and torment makes me think we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss this as "just a parable."

Perry, maybe the rich man didn't ask for a fire hose because he was fully aware that he didn't deserve even a cup of water. Since we both believe this is a parable, I guess we can agree that we probably shouldn't try too hard to figure out why the rich man asked for a drop of water rather than a fire hose, extinguisher, or fire-proof suit

[mattrose]

I don't think the parable has any value in determining the nature of "Hell" in regards to the debate between views such as ET, CI, or UR. Even if it were a 'true story' and not a parable, it would still most readily apply to the intermediate state and not post-judgment day situation. And it might not even refer to the intermediate state post-Christ (assuming things may have changed with the cross).

At most, in my opinion, it could give us some details about what happened to people under the Old Covenant upon death.

[psimmond]

mattrose, if this were the only passage we had that mentioned portmortem torment and fire, I would agree with you that at most "it could give us some details about what happened to people under the Old Covenant upon death."

BTW, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you might be

[Paidion]

I cannot provide a source for Christ's parable, but I have observed that Josephus' description of Hades seems similar to the Hades in Christ's parable:

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/hades.htm

[psimmond]

I'm not sure, but I think the Greeks and Romans believed in a Hades where some went to the Elysian Fields (Abraham's bosom/paradise?) and other were punished in Tartarus. (Tantalus felt as though he was dying of thirst but could never get even a drop of water.) I'm guessing that those in Tartarus couldn't leave to go to the Elysian Fields and vice versa.

It's been years since I studied Greek and Roman mythology, so perhaps someone else with more knowledge could comment on this.