Punishment and the fear of God
Re: Punishment and the fear of God
Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.”
Certainly sounds similar to the verse regarding some getting few stripes and some getting many. Sodom generally considered the most wicked city , if a poll were taken of bible believers and yet it gets a more tolerable judgment.
I wonder what the purposes of God's different kinds of judgment are? Is it retribution , is it restoration or for the sake of justice or perhaps a combination.
Certainly sounds similar to the verse regarding some getting few stripes and some getting many. Sodom generally considered the most wicked city , if a poll were taken of bible believers and yet it gets a more tolerable judgment.
I wonder what the purposes of God's different kinds of judgment are? Is it retribution , is it restoration or for the sake of justice or perhaps a combination.
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Re: Punishment and the fear of God
I think this verse works fine for any of the 3 views. But I notice he says "on the day of judgment" rather than "after the day of judgment"; I wonder if there's any significance to that? It seems to fit better with conditionalism or universalism than with traditionalism. If He meant to communicate something about eternal torment, it seems a more natural way of speaking would be to reference the punishment rather than the day of judgment.TheEditor wrote:"But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." Mat 11:24
More tolerable for Sodom. How?
Re: Punishment and the fear of God
Greetings,
That is why I asked the question. The statement by Jesus seems to encourage speculation. My own thoughts (for what they are worth) is that ignorance is to some extent an excuse. At least, God appears willing to make allowances for this. As I am prone to quip, God is not a great cosmic Groucho Marx that says 'Close, but no cigar'.
Regards, Brenden.
That is why I asked the question. The statement by Jesus seems to encourage speculation. My own thoughts (for what they are worth) is that ignorance is to some extent an excuse. At least, God appears willing to make allowances for this. As I am prone to quip, God is not a great cosmic Groucho Marx that says 'Close, but no cigar'.
Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]
Re: Punishment and the fear of God
As I am prone to quip, God is not a great cosmic Groucho Marx that says 'Close, but no cigar'.
Wow , you mean that in addition to all spiritual blessings i get a cigar on judgment day? Awesome!
Wow , you mean that in addition to all spiritual blessings i get a cigar on judgment day? Awesome!
- jriccitelli
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Re: Punishment and the fear of God
And a pony too.
(Brenden, are you considering the 'greater' punishment promised for some, and the 'lesser' punishment for others in your question?
A Judgment usually delivers lesser and greater sentences depending on the offense)
(Brenden, are you considering the 'greater' punishment promised for some, and the 'lesser' punishment for others in your question?
A Judgment usually delivers lesser and greater sentences depending on the offense)
Re: Punishment and the fear of God
I think this verse works fine for any of the 3 views. But I notice he says "on the day of judgment" rather than "after the day of judgment"; I wonder if there's any significance to that? It seems to fit better with conditionalism or universalism than with traditionalism
Maybe the day of judgment is not 24 hours but a period of time, like a thousand years or so? Good thought!
Maybe the day of judgment is not 24 hours but a period of time, like a thousand years or so? Good thought!
Re: Punishment and the fear of God
A Judgment usually delivers lesser and greater sentences depending on the offense)
Yes JR you are right, but do you think God can accomplish anything besides punishment? Remember the poor teen age girl in Africa who helped her neighbors kids because they were needy. Sadly at the age of 15 years she was hit by a stray bullet and died, and sadly she had never heard of Jesus. When she meets Jesus on judgment day, what will her fate be? Is there only punishment or annihilation in store for her or is there anything else God will do, considering the fact His will is that none should perish. Do you think God's will carries any weight? Also what about God's mercy, does that matter?
Yes JR you are right, but do you think God can accomplish anything besides punishment? Remember the poor teen age girl in Africa who helped her neighbors kids because they were needy. Sadly at the age of 15 years she was hit by a stray bullet and died, and sadly she had never heard of Jesus. When she meets Jesus on judgment day, what will her fate be? Is there only punishment or annihilation in store for her or is there anything else God will do, considering the fact His will is that none should perish. Do you think God's will carries any weight? Also what about God's mercy, does that matter?
Re: Punishment and the fear of God
How can one eternal punishment be any greater or lesser than another? They are both eternal? Or are you talking about some temporary punishment before annihilation?JR wrote:(Brenden, are you considering the 'greater' punishment promised for some, and the 'lesser' punishment for others in your question?
A Judgment usually delivers lesser and greater sentences depending on the offense)
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Punishment and the fear of God
Yes JR I am.
You see, my way of looking at it is that with all judgment there appears to be a variety of punishment. More stripes, fewer stripes, etc. The same appears to be the case in rewards, "Star differs from star in glory" etc. The, Close but no cigar approach of endless conscious torture seems incompatable with the nature of God as I see him revealed in Scripture and through his Son. Abraham seemed to think the same.
Regards, Brenden.
You see, my way of looking at it is that with all judgment there appears to be a variety of punishment. More stripes, fewer stripes, etc. The same appears to be the case in rewards, "Star differs from star in glory" etc. The, Close but no cigar approach of endless conscious torture seems incompatable with the nature of God as I see him revealed in Scripture and through his Son. Abraham seemed to think the same.
Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]
- jriccitelli
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Re: Punishment and the fear of God
I do too Brenden, as I stated here under the 'The Logical Fallacy of Christian Universalism' page 13, Mon mar 10;
As I ‘have’ said, I believe the Bible speaks of deserving, fair, and just punishment, meaning that sins will be punished each according to their degrees. Post mortem predominantly, albeit it will be Gods decision. There are worse sins, and lesser sins, and more sins, and some sinned even more. The sinner will suffer and be punished for his own sins, each accordingly. This is the suffering, agony, and wrath spoken of, described and warned of ‘throughout’ scripture and eventually and finally the unrepentant and wicked will be thrown in the LOF, which is the second death, from this there is no indication anyone returns and they are dead, forever. This I do not believe is eternal torment, but the second death is the eternal annihilation ('after' their punishment, and the final punishment being the second death.