Re: Heb 9:27,28: An Alternate Translation?
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:15 am
*Bump* (so folks will know I replied to the thread topic).
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Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus seems so personal and singular until the plural "you" in verse 7. And Jesus goes on to speak of (V. 15-18) "whosoever" might not perish and others being already judged. The whole thing sounds so universal to me, not just about Israel.One example: Jesus speaking with Nicodemus at nite time (Jn 3). Jesus was amazed that Nicodemus couldn't follow him; that a "teacher of Israel" should have certainly understood what Jesus was getting at with being "born again (or from above)." Here I tend to see what needed to be born again (resurrected) was Israel. A teacher of Israel in that day & time would have known that Israel had been depicted as a valley of dead dry bones (ref. cit., Ezekiel). I have more thoughts on these kinds of things but am getting too sleepy.
That approach doesn't always work, sometimes not at all:1. Who's the audience
2. Audience expectation
3. Inspired Writer's prophetic declarations to that audience
4. Wrapped up in it's historical context
Will show which approach is in error.
The Jews of Jesus' day.1. Who's the audience
A Messiah who would overthrow the Romans and restore Israel to glory.2. Audience expectation
The Jews had the OT prophets but misunderstood/misapplied them.3. Inspired Writer's prophetic declarations to that audience
Their historical context was, in their minds, a definite need for a Messiah to overthrow the Romans.4. Wrapped up in it's historical context
In this case, I think its the one you outlined. Works sometimes, sometimes not.Will show which approach is in error.
Hi Homer,Homer wrote:robbyyoung wrote:
That approach doesn't always work, sometimes not at all:1. Who's the audience
2. Audience expectation
3. Inspired Writer's prophetic declarations to that audience
4. Wrapped up in it's historical context
Will show which approach is in error.
Question: Was Jesus the messiah?The Jews of Jesus' day.1. Who's the audienceA Messiah who would overthrow the Romans and restore Israel to glory.2. Audience expectation
The Jews had the OT prophets but misunderstood/misapplied them.3. Inspired Writer's prophetic declarations to that audience
Their historical context was, in their minds, a definite need for a Messiah to overthrow the Romans.4. Wrapped up in it's historical context
In this case, I think its the one you outlined. Works sometimes, sometimes not.Will show which approach is in error.
I made no comparison of Jesus' first and second coming. I was showing you how your method of interpretation does not always work. Sometimes it is complexly off base.Why are you comparing Yeshua's first coming to the second?
Well, we can start with Matthew 25, the sheep and the goats. Or do you know of a time when all of the nations were gathered before Jesus and judged?Tell me were Yeshua or His Apostles spoke of end time events to take place outside their generation?
Yes, in v. 7 it's in the plural when Jesus says, "Do not marvel that I said to you (plural), 'You must be born again." It appears Jesus spoke to Nicodemus as something of a representative of the Jews, etc.You wrote:Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus seems so personal and singular until the plural "you" in verse 7. And Jesus goes on to speak of (V. 15-18) "whosoever" might not perish and others being already judged. The whole thing sounds so universal to me, not just about Israel.
According to my Online Bible Program, the meanings are " as great as, as far as, how much, how many, whoever"Rick, you wrote:Doesn't "oson" mean "in as much as"?