Desperate for Jesus

[selah]

Hello Selah,

Thank God Chris is safe! I've let my friends who have been praying for him know he is. Did Chris agree that he would go into some kind of treatment? Or is he deciding on that?

On Teen Challenge.
I would much more recommend it than secular programs. I'm a recovered alcoholic and did AA 12 step for about 18 years, in & out & in & out. At that time I wanted to believe in what they call a "higher power" - and did not want 'it' or 'Him' to be the God of the Bible. I was backslidden. But thank God, I finally got sober after reading (and believing) -

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NKJV)
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

In AA and other secular programs they teach that alcoholism, drug addiction, sexual immorality, and so on, are "diseases you will have the rest of your life, even if you don't 'act out'." However, the Bible says these things are sin. When I saw what the Bible teaches and believed that God forgave me, set me apart, and washed me clean - I now say I am recovered (not "recovering") because it's true! I finally realized I do not have a disease, "And such WERE some of you." This set me free! The desire to drink disappeared when I took the Bible teaching over the world's (which had been 'ingrained' in me after so many years In & out of AA). Not only did I have a change in my entire thinking about drinking, I wanted to stop sinning in order to please God (cf. Romans 12:1-2).

So. I hope Chris can go to Teen Challenge (I'm not sure how expensive it is. Cost was one reason my cousin couldn't get in). If Chris decides to take secular treatment, there are Christian recovery groups, such as Celebrate Recovery, that are better than N.A. (Narcotics Anonymous). In them you can at least talk about Christ and the Bible. However, in my experience, most of these groups accept the "disease for life" model. I've asked about this in Christian meetings, mentioning 1 Cor 6:9-11, giving my testimony. No one put me down for what I said, but one time a person told me that while they respect my opinion, they have to go to AA "for my disease" as well as the Christian meetings. I didn't say anything in reply. But I definitely thought "You're not disagreeing with me - you're in disagreement with Saint Paul!"

I'm not completely against AA and the 12 steps. I mean, in some cases, it's the only kind of help people will accept. So it's better than nothing, and at least gets folks to thinking about their lives.

If Chris believes in the Bible or has any kind of confidence in it, I suggest that he would read and consider what 1 Cor 6:9-11 says. Had I not read and believed what Paul wrote, I might not be here right now.

Praise God and the Lord Jesus Christ!

Me and my friends will be praying for Chris, you, and your mother.
Keep us updated, please.
God bless you, Selah,
Rick

Rick, I agree wholeheartedly with what you said above. My prayer is that Chris will choose Christian discipleship. I agree with you that Teen Challenge men's treatment is the best choice for this issue. Like you, I pray Chris will choose Jesus Christ. This is the only way to real and complete recovery.

I was "in" the 12-Step Program for about 12 years. I attended a list of them: ACOA, OA, CoDA, AA and other self-help groups dealing with "healing the inner child." The main point this demonstrates is that I was determined to find answers and solve problems! Eventually I found that there is no other than Jesus Christ! I came to accept Jesus too, but not after I had repeated The Lord's Prayer "a million times" at the close of all those 12 step meetings.

Monday, my daughter and I along with a brother from my home fellowship, attended Chris' court. He couldn't see us sitting in the "audience" because he was behind glass that faced the judge, not the "audience." I was very disappointed in that because I wanted him to see that his loved ones were there for him. His voice sounded somewhat high-pitched and stressed.

I imagine the forced detox he is going through is painful so my heart is broken for the suffering he must feel. However, I am very relieved that he is off the streets, and as a result is unable to shoot up again! and I understand they have doctors to treat those who are ill. I just pray he will ask for help, or that the doctors see his need and respond accordingly.

Oh, I should tell you that the judge is holding him on $5,000 bail until August 26th, at which time he appears in court again with a court-appointed attorney. Apparently, only 10% of the bail price is needed to get him out of jail, but I am praying that the one person who has bailed him out before won't do it this time!

I am mailing him a one page letter from me everyday, and my daughter is sending him a card everyday. Our brother in the Lord who attended court with us said he would write Chris too! (My son used to work for this brother.) Praise God that there is a mature Christian man who cares enough about my son to go to court for him and write to him while he is in jail !!!

Everything is relative, but I don't think Chris is in "all that much" criminal trouble. His crimes' maximum sentencing is only 30 days in jail and he will end up serving most of that before his trial date of Aug 26, and the maximum fine is only around $2,500. (Before Chris was called to the stand, we listened to two other persons court proceedings, and when one compares Chris' maximum sentencing to the first two inmate's criminal trouble...well, their maximum sentencing was in the $50,000 range with five years in prison, so I felt grateful even as I sat in the courtroom.)

Chris' jailed experience is looking to me like an answer to our prayers. That God would bring Chris into submission--even though it is against his will--to submit to authorities, to give Chris time to detox, and to think and pray, and to (I pray he is) read the Bible that I delivered for him, and to determine his life-course.

I want to thank every one on this thread who have been praying for my son! I am so grateful that God has brought Chris into a fold (of sorts), and especially blessed that He did it in such a short time after you began praying. If you are so lead by the Holy Spirit, please pray that Chris will choose Teen Challenge treatment center. Thank you for your continued prayers! Praise God! ...Though my heart is broken for my son, I praise God because I know He can heal Chris! The Lord is in the praises of His people, and where the Lord is, miracles happen!

Thank you for being a compassionate people to pray for strangers, and God bless each of you!

[RickC]

Hello Selah,

Sometimes I don't reply to posts right away when the person who started the thread made the last post. I guess I delay sometimes because I want others to see the most recent 'update' (and not what I added 'on top of it' - if that makes sense). But whether it does or doesn't... ....

You thanked those who prayed for Chris, mentioning that some are complete strangers to you (and You're Welcome, from me). And, yes, some people I relayed your needs to do not know you at all (they don't come to this site). I supplied a link to this thread for them, though.

Along these same lines, Steve's (S. Gregg's) 'old forum' was called Family Bible Fellowship Forum. Some place Steve mentioned that: That name said a lot about how he thinks and feels. That is, how Christians are related in the family of God, whether we've met in person or on his site. I, obviously, don't know you really well. But I recall one time you mentioned hearing Steve & I yack on his radio show. That was pretty cool. One other time, I followed another 'forum regular' which was also really neat!
======================

In reply -
The first 72 hours are the most critical in detox and/or withdrawal. You probably know this. So Chris has made it through the hardest part. I trust he didn't have to get special medical attention and that they would have informed you if this occurred. (But I'm not asking you to give any information about that).

If you're not familiar with PAWS (Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, sometimes referred to as just PAW, Post-Acute Withdrawal) here are two links -
PAW - and see page two & three
- and -
See especially the first post.

I'm giving you this information to pass along to Chris. I realize you may not want to be 'directly' involved on things like this. But it would be excellent if you can get it to him somehow. I knew a few things about it myself before I got sober. And just after I sobered up (this last time) I was given a link to it. Knowing that I would 'have' PAWS or at least some of the symptoms helped me VERY much. As an example, there were times when I got rather 'paranoid' in my first few months. But since I knew it may happen, I recognized it and 'rode out the storm'. Also, it took about 18 months before I could sleep well, and regularly. Knowing these things - in advance - helped a LOT.
====================

Entering Teen Challenge -
My cousin didn't enter for two reasons: (1) financially, it was a tad high, though there were people who could 'pay the way' and (2) at the time, it was questionable whether my cousin was ready for the (Christian) commitment. From what I gathered, the TC personnel who interviewed him were asking him to really look at this, that they weren't convinced he was serious about Christ. And, at that time, he probably wasn't, as he wound up 'going back out' (drinking again). However, he did enroll in another Christian program which was a half-way house. After some discipleship for a couple weeks, he was required to get a part time job, as the discipleship classes continued. He graduated but 'went out again'. However, he's been clean & sober for a few months now and is back in Christian fellowship. He goes to AA, which is okay for him (I suppose, though I don't believe in AA doctrines myself). His roommate is a Christian and also goes to AA with him.

Closing for now -
I will be in prayer for Chris, as will my friends. I hope he takes the TC option and that if he has not made a decision to follow Christ, he will.

God bless you, and Chris, Selah

[selah]

If you're not familiar with PAWS (Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, sometimes referred to as just PAW, Post-Acute Withdrawal) here are two links -
PAW - and see page two & three
- and -
See especially the first post.

I'm giving you this information to pass along to Chris. I realize you may not want to be 'directly' involved on things like this. But it would be excellent if you can get it to him somehow. I knew a few things about it myself before I got sober. And just after I sobered up (this last time) I was given a link to it. Knowing that I would 'have' PAWS or at least some of the symptoms helped me VERY much. As an example, there were times when I got rather 'paranoid' in my first few months. But since I knew it may happen, I recognized it and 'rode out the storm'. Also, it took about 18 months before I could sleep well, and regularly. Knowing these things - in advance - helped a LOT....................
====================
......................
Closing for now -
I will be in prayer for Chris, as will my friends. I hope he takes the TC option and that if he has not made a decision to follow Christ, he will.

God bless you, and Chris, Selah

RickC,

I'm not ignoring you, I'm just too busy to write too much...I mean, look at the time this is posting! I should be asleep, but this is when I get to listen to TNP program...late at night...

anyway, I want to reply to more you wrote about but for now, let me just respond about PAWS. The thread wouldn't let me print, but the excerpt from the book Staying Sober did so I printed it and put it in the mail for Chris. I hope the mail guards allow him to receive it. Thank you so much for sending the links to me.

I have visited Chris twice now and he says he can "go strait" without TC or anything. He may get out tomorrow-----or on the 26th. Tonight in our visit, he asked why would I want him to go to a teen program. I explained its name is only because of the program's history in that they started out only for teens, but now they serve men 18 years old and up. Sometimes knowledge is power, so I hope he gains knowledge by reading your PAWS info and also, I may send him the info pack that TC sent me. Then, I can "rest my case" before my son and stop pleading to him....This is hard, but I have to pray and rest my hopes in the Lord.

I feel so blessed to know you and your friends are praying for him. Also someone local is showing him kindness because someone put $20 on his commissary purchases. He was thrilled, but I told him I only put the first $20 in but don't know who did the second one.

I pray there is someone "with skin on" who is acting like Jesus to him.

I heard a pastor-type missionary guy from Cornerstone Church brought a bible study to the jail so there is another minister...

If I was a guy, I would start an outdoor ministry and take guys out for wilderness adventure...in fact, I invited Chris to go fishing with me when we can, and invite a friend. I've always enjoyed fishing with my son, ever since he was a little guy....

Thanks for keeping Chris in your prayers! What a blessing your praying friends and you are! I cannot explain how important this is to me and how supported I feel! ....more later....

[selah]

Hello Selah,

Sometimes I don't reply to posts right away when the person who started the thread made the last post. I guess I delay sometimes because I want others to see the most recent 'update' (and not what I added 'on top of it' - if that makes sense). But whether it does or doesn't... ....

I like to read it and think about it for a day or two...but then, my superbusy life often prevents me from replying as soon as I would like...

You thanked those who prayed for Chris, mentioning that some are complete strangers to you (and You're Welcome, from me). And, yes, some people I relayed your needs to do not know you at all (they don't come to this site). I supplied a link to this thread for them, though.

Along these same lines, Steve's (S. Gregg's) 'old forum' was called Family Bible Fellowship Forum. Some place Steve mentioned that: That name said a lot about how he thinks and feels. That is, how Christians are related in the family of God, whether we've met in person or on his site.

I never heard that this was Steve's perception of the forum. I'm glad to know this. TNP forum is the first, and the most-often posted-on forum that I have joined. The Internet is a "whole new world" and Christian groups can sometimes be more or less family-Bible-fellowshippy. Anyway, I know I really appreciate all the people who have and continue to pray for my son. BTW: Although I have listened to TNP off and on (mostly on) since 2000, I never got to the old forum...

In reply -
The first 72 hours are the most critical in detox and/or withdrawal. You probably know this. So Chris has made it through the hardest part. I trust he didn't have to get special medical attention and that they would have informed you if this occurred. (But I'm not asking you to give any information about that).

No special medical attention needed. He said that he did just fine. However, as for the PAWS info that you sent (which I wrote a response in a prior post), it clues me into reasons why the repeat ...or cycle of drug abuse: cleaning up, then falling back into drug abuse again...and the cycle continues...

I've known (it's common sense) that diet, sleep habits, exercise and all...plays a big role in stress levels, which then affects resolve against any kind of sin, so hopefully having it specifically stated for drug and alcohol recovery, will I hope, cause Chris to listen to the author.

As for the neurological damage which effects brain function, I want to look into ways I can improve myself. It has been years (about 30) since I used street drugs, but sometimes have wondered what ill effects it left in me, especially considering the strange illness that I had last year. Praise the Lord! Psalms 103: 1-5!!!

My next visitation with Chris is Thursday night. I'm enjoying his letters. This is a time of deeper sharing between this mom and adult son...

[RickC]

Hello Selah,

This won't be long....

A Correction on Teen Challenge -
I just learned I was probably mistaken about TC's "cost." My cousin who was to have possibly entered into TC; his dad (my 1st cousin) just visited here in Ohio (he's from Milwaukee, WI). He said he thought TC was free. I had been talking with his wife about this, and thought she had said it wasn't free. So I'm not sure if it is or isn't. She may have been talking about how much it would cost to get her son from where he lived back to WI so that he could get into TC, I don't know.

I hope your visit with Chris goes well.
I will be praying for you both.

[selah]

Hello Selah,

A Correction on Teen Challenge -
I just learned I was probably mistaken about TC's "cost." My cousin who was to have possibly entered into TC; his dad (my 1st cousin) just visited here in Ohio (he's from Milwaukee, WI). He said he thought TC was free. I had been talking with his wife about this, and thought she had said it wasn't free. So I'm not sure if it is or isn't. She may have been talking about how much it would cost to get her son from where he lived back to WI so that he could get into TC, I don't know.

When I recently looked into Teen Challenge, I learned that at this time, the charge for the men's 18 and older residential treatment center is $1,500 per month. Teen Challenge strongly encourages at least half of that to be paid by family or friends; they request monthly pledges and payments equaling no less that $750. The remaining half may be incorporated into the man's individual treatment plan. It was explained to me that residents help with fund-raising as they work in thrift stores or car washes, depending upon what type of on-going fund raising business Teen Challenge has in the area. The experience that the man gains while working in these fund raising activities serve to pay part of his way in TC, and also to earn him transferable job skills and self-confidence in his employment goals. They made a special effort to let me know that they never turn anyone away for non-payment.

I first learned about Teen Challenge years ago. I met for an informational interview at that time and sought to volunteer for them. It didn't work out at that time, but it might now. In fact, I have been praying to find a house or building in the Salem, Oregon area ( or Dallas, Oregon would be great too! ) where we could open a women's center. There are only two women's centers that I know of in Oregon and one is in Portland (I think) and the other is in Eugene. Salem is in dire need of a Christian based Teen Challenge center for women. (Does someone want to open one for men in the Salem, Oregon area?)

As I understand it, Teen Challenge is one of the most successful treatment programs "out there." I support them in what they are doing and how they do it, since they are modeled after the discipleship that Jesus lived with His disciples.

I first remember having a vision to help overthrow drug and alcohol addiction from as many as 35 years ago. Now is the time for me to speak up! When I recently met with the Teen Challenge Intake Coordinator, he gave me a DVD about the history of Teen Challenge and I gave him a copy of my resume because I was serious about praying for Teen Challenge, Salem, Oregon. I can see it now----a place to heal and grow in Jesus' way.

If anyone has facilities that you would like to donate to Teen Challenge, please contact me. I would be happy to facilitate you donating a house and/or land to Teen Challenge for a women's center in Salem, Oregon. If anyone wants to see the Teen Challenge DVD, let me know because I would be happy to bring it to you and share what I know about Teen Challenge--and the challenges of drug abuse. If interested, please "private message" me in the forum and we'll work something out to communicate further.

Homer, what do you think? You're close to the Lebanon headquarters and Shedd men's treatment center, right? What do you know about Teen Challenge? Do you know anyone who might want to donate a few acres and/or a dwellling? Facebook is next; I want to get the word out that I can help "from the ground up" if someone will donate the facility. Let's get started!

Thanks to anyone who replies!
Selah*

[selah]

On August 7, he was arrested and held in jail all this time until this Thursday, he has court. I have visited him every visitation opportunity and his emotions have been up and down between severe depression and anger to moderate optimism. I am very concerned for him.

Last night, I went to see him in jail. He is planning to come to my house to live when he (thinks he) gets out, but he was so mad at me for telling him that he "cannot come and go between his friends on drugs and my house" that he cut our visit short. He called me a "cop" and said that I am not "down" with him. He said he is a "gangster" and he "won't change," but he also said he will change his eating habits, exercise habits and work habits and try to stay off drugs. One minute he said he would be "good" and then, the next minute, he claimed to be a "hood" ? If his attitude doesn't change---if he gets out of jail on Thursday---it won't be long before he will be in trouble again (either on drugs again or in jail again). He misinterpreted my concern about his not having a sobriety plan to accuse me that "you're not stoked that I'm getting out." Well, I'm not stoked on him going back on meth!

He said it was "wack" for his mother to come see him. He hates me; everything I say is offensive to him (yet he wants to come stay at my home when he gets out ?). I wrestle with thoughts: Will he someday say that I was "the mom who never gave up on me" or the mom who "walked out and cut me off?" Either action could "work" if he wants to change. Neither action will work if he doesn't want to change. Either action could be the right thing for me to do, or it could be the wrong thing for me to do.

He mentioned "Jesus Christ" in a derogatory manner. I took that opportunity to tell him that he needs Jesus. He sneered and mumbled something about change. It ended our conversation, but I said something like, "...change? the word of God can transform your mind." He hung up on me and turned his back on me, placing his hands on his head. I stood there (there is glass between the visitor and prisoner and we speak through phones) and I prayed the Holy Spirit would transform his mind. I pictured his hands on his head as the "laying on of hands," until he turned to me and waved me to go. I could tell he wanted me to go, so I honored his jester and gave him our personal hand signal (developed from childhood---I think I'll stop doing that? Maybe that offends him too ?) and walked away. He quickly returned the hand signal (so is he offended? or does he "secretly" appreciate his mother ? ) It is too bad that other family members don't offer themselves to him. This type of isolation and rejection has been going on for years, so am I supposed to walk out on him and ignore him now?

I am convinced that he has some neurological impairment. He has had symptoms of pounding heart rate, anxiety and depression for years. The reason is not just psychological. He has reported to me that his heart pounds terribly when he eats MSG, but he won't stop eating foods laced with it. I believe he feels insulted to hear that his body is sensitive to certain food additives. Chemical sensitivity is not his only issue, I am sure, but I am equally sure that it is a piece to his puzzle. Cutting it out would help. Of course, the meth is extremely important to cut out!

Would you please pray for my son ? Like I said, he goes to court this Thursday at 1:15 p.m. I am praying for our Father's will...I know that men are drawn to the Father by His lovingkindness so...I pray! What's a mother to do

...so...I wonder how ministers reach the hearts of "gangsters" and "hoods?"...

[RickC]

Selah - God be with you!
Myself and my prayer partner friends are praying for you and your son.

[selah]

Hi family in Christ,

I have to go really fast so I'm just going to copy and paste my statement that I have prepared for the judge. My son's court today is 1:15 Pacific Time. Thank you for your prayers! God Bless You!

To: The Honorable Judge

From: .SueAnn......., mother to Chris......

Date: September 1, 2010

Re: Request Intervention


I love my son, Chris....., very much and am dreadfully concerned for him. At the same time, I feel afraid of him because about five weeks ago, he admitted that he was shooting up methamphetamines. He said he was afraid of it and wanted to quit.

He has serious pre-existing anger issues. In the recent past, he has swung his fist inches from my face and lunged forward with his fist ready to strike me, as well as destroy some of my property.

While he has been in jail, I visited him every time that he was provided “Visitation” and I have witnessed him acting very anxious, angry and depressed.

When my son leaves jail, he has no place to live other than the streets. He has no income or job. He wanted to stay at my house, but cannot assure me that he won’t go see his drug “friends.” Without D & A Intervention, I feel very uncomfortable letting him stay with me. If he uses meth again and comes to my house, I would be awfully scared for my safety. Also, my daughter is no longer allowing my six month old grand-daughter to come to my house, because we don’t want her around meth users. Of course, we are afraid for Chris’ very life too.

For these reasons (and others unspoken), I pray the court will order my son to enroll in a residential Drug & Alcohol treatment center, or at least I pray that he be court-ordered to receive counseling.

Is there anything you can do to help my son? Perhaps you have an idea that I have not thought of? Thank you for your consideration.

With love and grief for my whole family,


SueAnn....

[RickC]

Will be praying.