Preaching to Myself

[mattrose]

I listened to your sermon twice and finally get the difference between kind and nice. Once that distinction was made, I completely embraced it..... Even you, Matt, used the words interchangeably at the end when you were relating the story of the pizza delivery guy.

Yes, on Sunday mornings I preach at a little church (where the recording comes from) and then teach the exact same content in Sunday School at my home church. In both settings, I found it hard to stay completely consistent in my distinction b/w 'nice' and 'kind,' but the second time through I think I was a bit more clear

As for jealous and its positive/negative connotation, I heard a sermon that suggests that part of Satan's deception in the garden is that God is jealous (negatively) of His knowledge and wisdom. I just found that kind of interesting in light of your sermon series.

I do think Satan would love for us to think of God as jealous in the negative sense (I'm sure he'd be pleased to get us to believe ANY untruth about God!). I did find quite a few resources simply DISMISSING the positive sense of jealousy (Sometimes quite boldly, given all the OT lines directly stating that God is jealous). I think such resources are STUCK on the negative aspect of jealousy and simply don't like the messiness of real human language.

THANK YOU so much for dialoguing with me on my sermons! If I would have known I would get occasional feedback here, I probably would have started recording years ago, haha.

[mattrose]

Notes from today's study. These notes will essentially be my sermon.

GOD IS NOT JEALOUS

Oprah Winfrey
“The church I went to had a really charismatic pastor—you had to show up early to get a seat—and I remember sitting there one Sunday while he was preaching about how ‘the Lord thy God is a jealous God’… I looked around and thought, "Why would God be jealous? What does that even mean?"

There is a small group of similar Hebrew words that are collectively used more than 80 times in the Old Testament, are generally translated into English terms like envy, jealousy, and zeal, and can have either a positive or negative connotation.

Examples
Rachel was jealous of Leah
Brothers were jealous of Joseph
Phinehas was zealous for God
Elijah was zealous for God
We shouldn’t be envious of violent, wicked, evil men
Most importantly… God was jealous a lot in OT
I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God (Exodus 20:5)
The LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God (Ex. 34:14)
God is a consuming fire, a jealous God (Deut. 4:24)
They made him jealous with their foreign gods (Deut. 32:16)
They aroused his jealousy with their idols (Psalm 78:58)
I am very jealous for Jerusalem (Zech. 1:18)
I am burning with jealousy for her (Zech. 8:2)

INDEED, about HALF of the instances are about God!

In the New Testament, there are a number of similar Greek words that collectively are used about 40 times, are generally translated into English terms like desire, envy, jealousy, and zeal, and can likewise carry a positive or negative connotation (though the word most often translated as envy is arguably always negative).

Examples
Jewish authorities were jealous of the Apostles
Envy & Jealousy are often listed as vices
Love is not jealous
Paul had a godly jealousy
Christians were to eagerly desire spiritual gifts
People good be zealous for law, God, good, etc.

Both Testaments, then, use these words in ways that are flexible and must be interpreted (positively or negatively) according to context. Desires/zeal may be good or bad (it depends on what one is desiring or zealous for!). Envy is most often negative, but could potentially be used in a positive sense (of wanting a good trait that another person has). Jealousy may be appropriate or inappropriate (it depends on what kind of relationship is involved).

Examples
It’s GOOD to have great zeal for the Kingdom of God
It’s BAD to have enthusiasm for a corrupt cause
It’s GOOD to want to imitate someone’s success
It’s BAD to envy someone’s material possessions
It’s GOOD to passionately protect your marriage
It’s BAD to show our insecurity by over-protection

So back to Oprah’s Question…
Why would God be jealous? What does that even mean?

And if God is jealous… how might we reconcile that with the fact that this verse says love is not?

In the POSITIVE sense… God is JEALOUS
1. God’s jealousy is repetitive theme in Scripture
2. God’s jealousy is in the context of covenant
3. God’s jealousy is actually a beautiful reality

In the NEGATIVE sense… God is not JEALOUS
1. God’s enthusiasm is never misdirected
2. God lacks nothing that He should envy
3. God’s jealousy is never motivated by fear

And since God is not jealous in these ways, the 1st Corinthians passage commands us not to be jealous either.

Keys to Overcoming negative Jealousy/Envy…

1. Worship God as God truly is
2. Obey God’s repeated command
Mark 7:22, Rom. 1:29, Gal. 5:21, 1 Tim. 6:4, Tit. 3:3, 1 Ptr. 2:1
3. Consider your personal health Proverbs 14:30
4. Consider the slippery slope James 3:16
5. Keep thinking with a big perspective
Proverbs 3:31-32, 23:17-18

QUOTES of NOTE

“You shall not covet” (Exodus 20:17)

“Where there is no comparison, no envy.”
(Francis Bacon)

“If you desire glory, you may envy Napoleon, but Napoleon envied Caesar, Caesar envied Alexander, and Alexander, I daresay, envied Hercules, who never existed.”
(Bertrand Russell)

“Envy is the art of counting the other fellow’s blessings instead of your own.”
(Harold Coffin)

“When we envy someone, we tend to magnify that person’s good fortune while at the same time minimizing our own.”
(Will Willimon)

“Envy debilitates its host. Indeed, of all the sins, envy seems to be its own punishment.”
(Will Willimon)

“Most of the other seven [deadly sins] can be fun, let’s admit it… but who enjoys envy, even for a moment?”
(Will Willimon)


“God is a jealous God, but He is jealous on behalf of you. He is not selfishly jealous as human beings are. His righteous jealousy is actually the opposite of what we understand jealousy to be. Until we understand this principle of God’s heart, we will always see Him upside down from what He really is. We have taken the Scriptures that describe Him as a jealous God and have given them a selfish and Satanlike interpretation.”
(Darin Hufford)

“Jealousy can be a bad or a good thing. It’s bad to protect the petty; it’s good to fiercely guard the precious. If jealousy is rooted in self-centeredness, it is clearly the wrong kind of jealousy. A jealousy that springs from concern for another’s well-being, however, is appropriate.”
(Paul Copan)

“A marriage without the potential for jealousy when an intruder threatens isn’t much of a marriage.”
(Paul Copan)

“God’s jealousy, including the demand that he be exclusively worshiped, does not arise from petty motives but from beneficent ones. The problem with idols is not that they make God feel bad but that they cannot save, thus keeping from salvation those he wants to see gain eternal life. His hatred of idols reflects his love for us, not any insecurity with regard to himself.”
(Douglas Stuart)

“The usual interpretation of ‘jealous’ is misleading because we commonly view jealousy as an illegitimate disposition akin to envy or covetousness. However, in the Old Testament, this term usually speaks of the legitimate passion that is aroused when interference from a third party threatens a proper relationship, particularly a marriage relationship when another ‘lover’ enters the picture. Yahweh is an impassioned God, who treasures Israel as his covenant people. This love is fueled, not by an exploitative need to dominate, but by ardor for the well-being of the object.”
(Daniel Block)

[mattrose]

I'm struggling a bit this week in preparation.

Admittedly, the idea behind the series (If GOD IS LOVE and LOVE IS... patient, kind, etc. THEN GOD MUST BE... patient, kind, etc.) is somewhat artificial in the sense that, while true, it is not primarily what Paul had in mind when he made the 1st Corinthians list. He had the love of the Corinthians for one another in mind, as the core cure for the division coming about by the mis-use and abuse of spiritual gifts.

The artificial nature of the series hasn't mattered much up to this point. It was fairly easy to preach a message on God being patient. It wasn't hard to put together a sermon on how God is kind. It was actually quite interesting to prepare a sermon showing God is not (the bad kind of) jealous. But I'm having a little bit of a problem deciding what to do with the next two descriptions of God's love.

God does not boast. God is not proud.

My original intent was to take each phrase separately. But when I started to doubt my ability to put together a sermon solely focused on "God does not boast" and realized how similar the next line really is, I decided to combine these 2 into 1 sermon. But what will I say?

God does not boast. God is not proud. Hmmm.

My attempts at preparation so far have taken me down many different paths (I won't list them all, since they mostly proved to be fairly dead ends!), but one place they led me was to historic catechisms. The first question is often something like: What is the purpose of people (paraphrased)? And the answer is usually given as something like "To glorify God."

I can see how this Q&A, drilled into the minds of school-aged children, could lead one to the conclusion that God is quite obsessed with his own superiority. I can imagine them imagining a God who is so self-obsessed that he craves (needs?) creatures to worship Him (I do, however, have a pretty hard time imagining the trinitarian God like this!). So BOOM, God makes angels. They praise Him 24/7. But it's not enough. He makes rocks and birds and fish and beasts... but alas... they are not very good at worshiping Him... at least not to the degree He demands. So He makes people sorta like Himself (just not quite as awesome). Why? So they can praise Him. But they mess up and so He begins a process of fixing them up. Why? So they can praise Him forever and ever.

And we end up with all the angels and people surrounding God in heaven singing "I could sing of your love forever" forever. Literally forever. And God just soaks it all in. He's finally got what He always wanted... constant congratulation... persistent praise.

I can see this leaving a sour taste in children's mouths (and more importantly, their hearts). It does the same to me.

God does not boast? Does He?

Boasting is rhetorically extolling oneself excessively. Does God really do this? It'd be interesting to read through the entire Bible with the sole-purpose of studying what kinds of things God says about Himself. My hunch is that God spends hardly any time praising Himself. Do others urge us to praise Him. Yes. Does He sometimes make it clear who He is and who we're not? Sure. But is God obsessed with extolling Himself? I don't think so. More often than not... God does not boast. He proves who He is with actions moreso than with words.

God is not proud? Is He?

The word here translated as proud or arrogant means inflated. Does God have an inflated ego? A big head? This one is a little bit tricky like the sermon on jealousy. There is, I think, a positive kind of pride (delight in one's good character and/or accomplishments). But here we're talking about the negative kind of pride (over-evaluation of one's character and/or accomplishments). When we put it that way... is it even possible for God to be proud? Could He over-estimate His character? No, it is infinitely good! Could he over-estimate His accomplishments? No, all His works are beautiful! It seems it would be impossible for God to be proud in this sense.

But isn't it arrogant of God to want us all to worship Him all the time? Have we really eliminated that "problem" just by defining our terms a bit?

I think it becomes necessary to think about worship in a way that could potentially be fresh for some people. To me, worship is not really an ACT that God requires of us. It's not really a THING God craves. God didn't make us so that He could GET people to worship Him. He made us so that He could GIVE us life and love and relationship. Worship is just the word we use to describe the proper way creature relates to Creator.

So I'm not sure I really like some of the typical catechisms. They might mislead us into thinking that God is boastful and proud. They might leave us imagining God as self-obsessed and needy (needing praise). They might cause us to think of God as obsessed with His own superiority. I actually Calvin's catechism better (that the chief end of man is to know God) or even the 2nd phrase in the more common (Westminster) catechism (that the chief end of man is to enjoy God forever). Those are relational phrases. God is a relational being. God is other-oriented. God is not boastful (putting others down). He is loving (lifting others up). God is not prideful and self-obsessed. He is humble and self-humiliating.

We see this best in Jesus. "Jesus Christ is God not boasting." (Hufford) Notice the manner in which Jesus entered the world. Notice the temptations He didn't fall into. Notice how in his ministry he failed (much to the chagrin of some modern day Christian apologists) to go around boldly declaring how great He really was. Rather than lifting himself up, he got beneath people. Rather than demanding service, he served.

And when he finally was LIFTED UP, it was in the most humiliating way. He was lifted up on a roman cross. What an opportunity to boast! What an opportunity to show he had reason, more than any, to be arrogant! But instead... he stayed... stuck on a cross. Completely humiliated. That's my God.

Does God boast. God didn't.

Is God arrogant? God wasn't.

He refused to extol himself. He instead humbled himself.

No need for more rambling. I think just typing all this out has helped put my sermon together. Maybe what I just typed basically is my sermon

[Michelle]

I love this inner dialogue. I can't wait to hear this weeks sermon. If you follow this outline, it ends on such an uplifting declaration!

[robbyyoung]

God does not boast. God is not proud.

Hi Matt,

The key to solving this seemingly contradiction is if the "boasting or pride" is misplaced. Let's look at the text:

1 Cor 13:4-6 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth

Matt, boasting is in the same understanding as Joyful, Rejoicing, and to Glory. The "RED TEXT" is what places our and God's boasting as legit. Every instance that I know of in the bible condemns misplaced "Boasting/Joy/Glory/Rejoicing" and promotes the same if found in God's truth.

So, does God boast? Yes, He sure does, in His wonderful truth.

God Bless!

[mattrose]

So, does God boast? Yes, He sure does, in His wonderful truth.

God Bless!

I recognize your point.

Since anything God would 'boast' about is true
And since anything God would take 'pride' in would be legit
It wouldn't be negative at all for God to boast and to have pride

There is a large part of that I find very agreeable.

On the other hand, the greek word for 'boast' here is about excessively extolling oneself (like a self-infatuation). I don't think God is self-obsessed. I think God is other-obsessed. So, in that sense, I wouldn't say God is boastful. The greek word for 'arrogant' has to do with inflation (even 'over'-inflated in this context). Once again, the attitude involved seems to be one of self-obsession. God just doesn't look like that when I look at Jesus (and what better way to look at God?).

Bottom line: Jesus was boastful or arrogant. He was self-humiliating. We know about God through Jesus. So our theology should center on Jesus' character traits.

[Paidion]

Why did the apostle Paul wish to boast concerning his infirmities? (2 Corinthians 11:30, 12:5, 12:9)

[mattrose]

Why did the apostle Paul wish to boast concerning his infirmities? (2 Corinthians 11:30, 12:5, 12:9)

Isn't that an interesting section of Scripture?

It seems to me Paul was confronting the Corinthian Christians quite sarcastically. They were buying in fully to the honor/shame culture that they were part of. In such a culture, it was typical to exalt one's self... to boast... to be arrogant as a means to obtain greater honor. This was not only NOT frowned upon... it was considered a good thing to do.

Paul is saying, I think, "hey, I could play that game too." I have a lot of stuff I COULD boast about if I wanted to. But boasting is not what the Lord Jesus would do (11:17). Paul considers it foolish and only sarcastically continues to prove his point. He rhetorically states that IF he absolutely had to be boast about something, it would (against the grain of his culture) be his weaknesses? Why? Because it is those who lower themselves (instead of those who inflate themselves) upon whom God chooses to rest and act.

Paul, it seems to me, had the interesting ability to 'play games' while exposing the silliness of the 'game' at the same time.

What are your thoughts on the passage and your question?

[robbyyoung]

So, does God boast? Yes, He sure does, in His wonderful truth.

God Bless!

I recognize your point.

Since anything God would 'boast' about is true
And since anything God would take 'pride' in would be legit
It wouldn't be negative at all for God to boast and to have pride

There is a large part of that I find very agreeable.

On the other hand, the greek word for 'boast' here is about excessively extolling oneself (like a self-infatuation). I don't think God is self-obsessed. I think God is other-obsessed. So, in that sense, I wouldn't say God is boastful. The greek word for 'arrogant' has to do with inflation (even 'over'-inflated in this context). Once again, the attitude involved seems to be one of self-obsession. God just doesn't look like that when I look at Jesus (and what better way to look at God?).

Bottom line: Jesus was boastful or arrogant. He was self-humiliating. We know about God through Jesus. So our theology should center on Jesus'
character traits.

Hi Matt, the parts of my comments you find agreeable was my entire point. All boasting, joy, glory and rejoicing which is misplaced against the truth is in error. I just wanted you, which you knew already, to clarify the difference if your sermon called for it

By the way, point me to what you are referring to in this statement, "the greek word for 'boast' here is about excessively extolling oneself (like a self-infatuation)" and what translation you are using. Thanks and God Bless!

[mattrose]

I just wanted you, which you knew already, to clarify the difference if your sermon called for it

Thanks

By the way, point me to what you are referring to in this statement, "the greek word for 'boast' here is about excessively extolling oneself (like a self-infatuation)" and what translation you are using. Thanks and God Bless!

I used this Bible
http://www.amazon.com/The-English-Greek ... nterlinear
And this site
http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/gwview.cgi?n=4068