Patron Saint Joseph of Home Sales

[RND]

RND, I’ve already agreed that what you’re saying seems reasonable.

Does logical come into view?

On the other hand....

It’s a big step to go from what seems reasonable to claim you know how something happened. It’s an even bigger step to claim that the Holy Spirit revealed it to you. Although the Holy Spirit could have revealed this to you (I can’t dispute it one way or the other), I don’t think it’s appropriate to insist that anyone agree with your revelation. Do you? Isn't there a part of you that commends kaufmannphillips for not easily accepting something not clearly stated in the text? I hope so!

Steve, would you agree that understanding the scriptures only comes by way of the revelation and the power of the Holy Spirit?

1 Cor 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

RND, why can't you let this go?

I think it's because you keep bringing it up.

Why is this point important to you?

Because no one says Christ is Lord without the work of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:3). Someone that denies Christ is Lord doesn't have the revelation of the Holy Spirit. For that same person to suggest they know what scripture is saying, outside of the Holy Spirit, can not be taken seriously.

Is it that you can't accept the fact he dosen't see it your way ???

Oh, I can certainly accept that he doesn't see things the way I do, I already have, and I have absolutely no problem with that. Nor do I see that the Godhead of the Father, the Son and the Holt Spirit is done with KP by any stretch. But to deny Jesus Christ is the Son of God then exclaim that one knows what scripture says without the revelation of the Holy Spirit is simply error, plain and simple.

Anyone can say of any verse in scripture, "It doesn't say that." Only one imbued with the revelation of the Holy Spirit can understand the deeper meaning of scripture. This is nothing new. Paul spoke of this readily.

I'm searching for answers in my mind. In fact, based on what I've read, he may actually agree that your hypothesis is the most likely. What he disagrees with is your insistence that you know what happened based on specualtion....however reasonable the speculation may be.

Speculation? Not in my mind Steve. Revelation, more likely. Luke was not with Paul when Paul was with the Bereans, he stayed behind in Philippi. It is highly unlikely that Luke wrote any of this in Acts 17 without the first person recollection of Paul.

[kaufmannphillips]

SteveF wrote:
Why is this point important to you?

RND wrote:
Because no one says Christ is Lord without the work of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:3). Someone that denies Christ is Lord doesn't have the revelation of the Holy Spirit. For that same person to suggest they know what scripture is saying, outside of the Holy Spirit, can not be taken seriously.

In your theory, is the Lordship of Jesus the first point of revelation made by the holy spirit to every individual? That is, does the holy spirit not reveal anything to the individual prior to that particular point of revelation? Are there no incremental revelations over time, precursors leading up to and contributing to the revelation of Jesus' Lordship?

SteveF wrote:
I'm searching for answers in my mind. In fact, based on what I've read, he may actually agree that your hypothesis is the most likely. What he disagrees with is your insistence that you know what happened based on specualtion....however reasonable the speculation may be.

RND wrote:
Speculation? Not in my mind Steve. Revelation, more likely.

"More likely"? Are you unsure?

How do you know that the holy spirit has revealed something to you, RND? As opposed to something being merely the product of your own reason, or your pious imagination? (Incidentally, "pious" is not a dirty word, so that diction is not a dig.)

RND wrote:
Someone that denies Christ is Lord doesn't have the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

If you hold absolutely to this stance, then how would you possibly be susceptible to correction at the hand of a non-Christian? If the holy spirit tried to use a non-Christian to correct you, in some area where their opinion happened to be correct, would you refuse it? Would you blaspheme it?

Then again, how would you possibly be susceptible to correction, in the event that Christ actually was not Lord? If the holy spirit tried to tell you that Christ was not Lord, would you blaspheme it?

And one more go, here...

RND wrote:
Someone that denies Christ is Lord doesn't have the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

How would you engage this passage?

So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the Council and said, “What are we to do? For this man performs many signs. If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.” But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all. Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish.” He did not say this from himself, but being high priest that year he prophesied.... [John 11:47-51a, ESV, edited]

[RND]

KP, at this point I'll defer your questions to others. I don't believe at this juncture anything fruitful will develop in a conversation with you. To me right now you seem more speculative about scripture and the truth it contains. May the Lord be with you in your search for truth.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

[kaufmannphillips]

KP, at this point I'll defer your questions to others. I don't believe at this juncture anything fruitful will develop in a conversation with you.

Well, if you ever decide to plug back into it, let me know.

If I have asked some questions that you are not prepared to address, be careful about what you leave neglected.