Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

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darinhouston
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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by darinhouston » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:46 pm

Last post edited -- I have been using the term "wont" wrong all my life.

tom
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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by tom » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:24 pm

Since no one can see Mary the way the RCC does I think as I wrote, we should end this thread.
I would just like to know if any Protestant, and I dislike to put them in a box, can at least say that Mary could be the new Ark of the Covenant? If no one can say that, without being sarcastic, then I think this thread is done.
smcllr3 wrote and I would like to ask Darin if we could start a thread to address this. Can we name it, "Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?"
I don't believe RCC has any valid claim to the Acts 15 church and I don't think that popeman's idea of the Acts 15 church was ever to exist except in Acts 15. We have enough revealed in the New Testament to ever need any more mandates from councils of Men.
Thanks,

Tom

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darinhouston
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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by darinhouston » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:31 pm

tom wrote:Since no one can see Mary the way the RCC does I think as I wrote, we should end this thread.
I would just like to know if any Protestant, and I dislike to put them in a box, can at least say that Mary could be the new Ark of the Covenant? If no one can say that, without being sarcastic, then I think this thread is done.
smcllr3 wrote and I would like to ask Darin if we could start a thread to address this. Can we name it, "Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?"
I don't believe RCC has any valid claim to the Acts 15 church and I don't think that popeman's idea of the Acts 15 church was ever to exist except in Acts 15. We have enough revealed in the New Testament to ever need any more mandates from councils of Men.
Thanks,

Tom
Done on both counts.

popeman
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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by popeman » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:50 pm

Dear Tom,

I keep forgetting to add to your Mary/Ark argument. I read your stuff again quickly and did not see this. If you said it and I missed it, sorry.

As we know already, the OT is a mere fore-shadowing of something greater in the NT. You did a nice job of explaining that with your scripture verses but I would like to add this. In the OT, God was tough to connect to….you could not say His name for fear of His wrath….you could not touch Him because He was only in the appearance of inanimate objects like a wooden/golden Ark carrying the three symbols of God …. and, if you dared to actually touch this inanimate Ark then you were struck dead!

How does God come back to us in the NT? God is fore-shadowed as all the above but now God comes to us in the new as something greater for all. God comes through a woman, Mary…God has a name, Jesus….you can utter God’s name and not die, but live, both physically and spiritually…you can also touch God and again not die, but actually be healed…God comes to us in the new through Mary the NT Ark of the Covenant in a way that blows the OT fore-shadowing out the window to have a personal relationship. You are on the money, Tom! Popeman

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darinhouston
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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by darinhouston » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:23 am

popeman wrote:How does God come back to us in the NT? God is fore-shadowed as all the above but now God comes to us in the new as something greater for all. God comes through a woman, Mary…God has a name, Jesus….you can utter God’s name and not die, but live, both physically and spiritually…you can also touch God and again not die, but actually be healed…God comes to us in the new through Mary the NT Ark of the Covenant in a way that blows the OT fore-shadowing out the window to have a personal relationship. You are on the money, Tom! Popeman
The problem, popeman, is that we don't disagree with anything in your post regarding fore-shadowing and the like except as to what the anti-type is for the type of the ark. The question is whether the ark is realized in Christ? or Mary? The importance of how the types relate to God makes that a very important point, and I sincerely think we should be VERY careful and have more than parallelism to guide us when ascribing OT types to anything besides God, incarnate or spiritual.

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RND
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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by RND » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:15 pm

I have a question. If the Ark of the Covenant is supposedly representative of Mary, does that mean the Ark of the flood is as well?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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popeman
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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by popeman » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:26 pm

Dear Tom,

Help me from a Catholic perspective with your ability to talk to Protestants. You seem to keep your calm better than me. I sit here and read this stuff and fall over trying to figure what is being said…maybe, I am sounding as goofy. Who knows. One remark said this “If the Ark of the Covenant is supposedly representative of Mary, does that mean the Ark of the flood is as well?” What does this mean?

The Ark of the Covenant and Ark of Mary carried God on earth. The Ark boat had representation in the salvation work that God would do, not Him. The waters washing away sin…etc. How can a stinky Ark full of animals and the end products of their digestive system be representative of God? Help me try to understand this Tom.

It seems that there are degrees of parallelism, too. It is strange that the parallelism of Mary and the Ark can not be grasped but other parallels in scripture that have less efficacy are hammered into stone in all Christendom as fact.

Thanks. Popeman

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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by RND » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:40 pm

popeman wrote:The waters washing away sin…etc.
Tom, did the "waters" wash away sin or were there "sinners" still left on the Ark? Or is it possible that Noah was counted as righteous by his faith?
How can a stinky Ark full of animals and the end products of their digestive system be representative of God? Help me try to understand this Tom.
Yes Tom, help us to understand the redemptive power of God illustrated in the salvation of the Ark.
It seems that there are degrees of parallelism, too. It is strange that the parallelism of Mary and the Ark can not be grasped but other parallels in scripture that have less efficacy are hammered into stone in all Christendom as fact.
Wow Tom, that's quite a mouthful you must elaborate on. How, for example, do all the elements of the sanctuary point to Christ except for the veil and the Ark of the Covenant? Where is Mary in the Day of Atonement service when the High Priest enters the the Most Holy Place to sprinkle the blood of the Lamb on the Ark?

Tom, helps us to understand how the Shekinah Glory of the Lord that rested above the Mercy Seat in between the two Cherubim was representative of the work that Mary did. Help us to see how Mary, in some way, represented the "Mercy Seat." These are definitely things I would love to have you elaborate on Tom - apparently others as well!
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

You Are Israel
Sabbath Truth
Heavenly Sanctuary

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darinhouston
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Re: Does The Ark Represent Jesus? or Mary?

Post by darinhouston » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:20 pm

popeman wrote:Dear Tom,

Help me from a Catholic perspective with your ability to talk to Protestants. .....

Thanks. Popeman
Tom, are you honestly incapable of direct dialogue ? If you want to talk only with Tom, I suggest you use private messages or email and stop speaking past the rest of us. It is an annoying habit, and is extremely rude.

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