Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?

Jill
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Post by Jill » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:12 pm

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Last edited by Jill on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tom
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Re: Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?

Post by tom » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:39 pm

Karen,
karenprtlnd wrote:Hi Tom :),
Hey- Tom and Mr.Popeman, how come your Roman Catholic?
I cannot answer for popeman but my reason is I want to obay Jesus and please the Father. Read my post....
Re: Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?
by tom on Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:33 am


Tom

tom
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Re: Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?

Post by tom » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:47 pm

Murf,
Murf wrote:Tom
your question about "Just for clairifacation, is His Kingdom in heaven? If not where is it?" could start a whole thread of its own. Probabaly already has somewhere on this foroum.

My (short answer) view is that the Kingdom is everyone who submits to Jesus' Kingship. Everyone already in Heaven and those on earth who submit.
So when you said the Kingdom can't be the Catholic Church because the Kingdom is not of this world only half of the Kingdom is on earth? Your answer falls perfectly into the Catholic Kingdom picture. Remember in Matt 16 Jesus gives Peter, (the rock), the keys of Heaven which must be the keys of earth also!!! "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Tom

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Re: Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?

Post by tom » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:48 am

To Steve and all,

I have to tell you, at times I'm a little scared to see things your way for fear it might undermine my Catholic faith. But I am open to looking and listening. That's why I listen to "The Narrow Path" and other Protestant Christian programs!

On the reverse side I think most on this forum are scared to accept the Catholic view in fear that it might bring them to become Roman Catholic or come under scrutiny by there friends. I pray that we are all open to the truth no matter where it leads?

That being said...
steve wrote:Tom,
You wrote:
During Moses' reign we see this same question of authority. Moses set his people/Gods people up with a multi level authority system, Ex 18:13-26. Then we see some didn't like the set-up and wanted to change the whole thing, and why not, they are all praying to the same God, right? Then in Num, 16:31 we see Korah and his followers wanted to change that. They wanted to have their own authority, why not, God is with us also! We see what happened to them in Num 16:31-33.
You wish to build your case upon a survey of Old Testament history—yet your survey is confusing. I am aware that Moses established a pastoral hierarchy under himself, but does Moses, in your analogy, represent Christ, or Peter? Since the apostles saw Jesus (not Peter) as a second Moses (see Acts 3:22-23; 7:37), I am assuming that you are making this same comparison. In that case, Korah would represent those who wish to overthrow Christ's leadership. Evangelicals have no such intention. They actually want to recover the leadership of Christ from the usurping "Korah" whose rule you advocate.

If you are saying that evangelicals are like Korah because they wish to overthrow Christ's appointed hierarchy (under Peter), then your analogy doesn't work at all—first, since we have no evidence that Korah wished to overthrow the hierarchy—he just wanted to supplant Moses—and second, because you have not shown (only asserted) that Jesus ever set up a hereditary hierarchy where the authority of Peter and the apostles was to be passed down to apostolic successors in each generation (that is not what Moses set up anyway). Therefore, to reject the Roman Catholic hierarchy is not analogous to rejecting the authority of Moses—or of Christ.
Now I'm obviously not getting my point across. If you are saying the RCC is like Korah!? The RCC doesn't want to 'overthrow Christ's authority' ! Christ gave that authority to Peter! If Moses is a prefigurement of Jesus who has all authority, (Moses/Jesus). Jesus gives His authority to Simon and builds His Church on Peter, (the rock)!

Matt 16:18, Simon's name changed, always a Big deal with Great meaning!

Matt 16:19, Jesus give the Rock, (Peter), the keys of the Kingdom! Keys denote authority!

John 21:15-17, Jesus makes the Rock the shepherd of His flock!

Luke 22:31+ 32, Jesus tells only the Rock that the devil will come against him but he will not fail, (remember Matt 16:18 "That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."). When he comes out of the trial he is to strengthen the brethren!

As far as Korah just wanted to supplant Moses. Korah didn't want to supplant. He wanted everyone to do what was right in their own eyes. Num 16:3, "And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, [Ye take] too much upon you, seeing all the congregation [are] holy, every one of them, and the LORD [is] among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?"

Moses falls on his face knowing that Korah and his companions just don't get it! God has given Moses all authority. They need to follow Moses in order to please God and get them to the promised land!

Tom

P.S.
I can only handle one or two things at a time. Steve your reply post has way too many items to handle for one post. I would like to keep it simple and finish. By finish if that means we exhaust our support then so be it.

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Murf
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Re: Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?

Post by Murf » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:45 pm

Tom,
Even if the RCC's view is the same as my short answer that doesn't mean that the RCC is the Kingdom. There are people in the Kingdom that are outside the RCC and there are people within the RCC that aren't in the Kingdom. The Kingdom of God is much bigger than the RCC.

tim

Jill
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Post by Jill » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:08 pm

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tom
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Re: Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?

Post by tom » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:53 pm

Doesn't seem to be much interest in my topic on the Kingdom of God. No one seems to want to debate much or any of the scripture I have quoted. If no one is interested I'll sign off.

Tom

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