The Narrow Path Ministries

Remember what I said about this forum being anti-Catholic?

This forum is not anti-Catholic.

Personally, I have as many or more differences with Protestant teaching in general than I do with Catholic teaching. I am not Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. Yet, I am (small "c") catholic.The word simply means "universal". There is only one universal Church of Christ; you can't join it;it is the Church to which God continually adds members. You can join clubs or organizations. The Church of Christ is not a club or an organization; it is an organism. Paul described it as the body of Christ and compared it to a human body with it various parts and organs.

God has established overseers and deacons in His Church, and has indicated that that the five-fold ministry would remain with us until we all come into the unity of the faith.

And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of teaching, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. Ephesians 4:11-14

Another point in response to tom -- we could easily point to atrocities done in the "name of" the Catholic church (consider the troubles with priests of late). That is more akin to your suggestion of Protestant atrocities. That would be unfair to the RC Church (though their failure as an organized institution supposedly controlling such things does speak to the likelihood of apostolic authority in their leadership), but it is a very different thing to point to official atrocities by and the official positions of the very popes and bishops that you would suggest had the blessing and authority of the apostles from Christ Himself.

I think it's important for RC apologists to realize that we do not have some sort of competing Protestant "church" organization that we think is superior or more authoritative to the RC organization. So, comparisons of things done in the name of protestants does nothing to detract from the arguments against holy authority/infallibility of the RC magesterium etc. Those assertions really must be defended and responded to without reference to the non-Catholic church because we make VERY different claims you and I as to our traditions, and thus have a different standard to bear with respect thereto.

Frankly, though, I don't feel the need to point to the RC atrocities throughout History -- I believe the very traditions and dogmas can be debated on their own merit, but there is definitely a RC presupposition that we can't get through with logic or biblical example/argument if you don't at least individually acknowledge within yourself some doubt as to the infallibility and authority of the church organization and leadership, themselves.

We do confess to being against Catholic dogma and much of its distinct doctrines, but that doesn't mean we are not objective or reasonable or that we somehow don't like individual Catholics or are out to "get" you.

That's my point. Are we here to discuss teaching and how it is supported by Scripture. Or are we here to point fingers? When you attack the Church you attack the members! For it's short history, Protestants have killed many in the name of Christianity! We don't want to go there

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tom wrote:

We do confess to being against Catholic dogma and much of its distinct doctrines, but that doesn't mean we are not objective or reasonable or that we somehow don't like individual Catholics or are out to "get" you.

That's my point. Are we here to discuss teaching and how it is supported by Scripture. Or are we here to point fingers? When you attack the Church you attack the members! For it's short history, Protestants have killed many in the name of Christianity! We don't want to go there

Excuse me? We're not pointing fingers, but we do intend to persuade one another when we thing they are wrong. We don't have any intention in providing biblical support for false teachings. If that's what you're looking for, this is the wrong forum -- we're seeking truth.

Now, as to protestants and its supposed "short history," it is impossible to say that some "protestant church" has killed any. Certainly, individual protestants have done things, but there is no such thing as a "Protestant church" corporate. That's my point. If you think there is such a "body" to fight, you may be "tilting at windmills."

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Is the RCC the Kingdom?

The short answer is no according to John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here. "

No man-made institution is the Kingdom since they are all of this world.

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Murf wrote:Is the RCC the Kingdom?

The short answer is no according to John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here. "

No man-made institution is the Kingdom since they are all of this world.

Murf,

Just for clairifacation, is His Kingdom in heaven? If not where is it?

Tom

Tom
your question about "Just for clairifacation, is His Kingdom in heaven? If not where is it?" could start a whole thread of its own. Probabaly already has somewhere on this foroum.

My (short answer) view is that the Kingdom is everyone who submits to Jesus' Kingship. Everyone already in Heaven and those on earth who submit.