Catholics' View on Jesus and the Church

dizerner

Re: Catholics' View on Jesus and the Church

Post by dizerner » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:15 am

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BrotherAlan
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Re: Catholics' View on Jesus and the Church

Post by BrotherAlan » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:07 am

Dear dizerner,
Again, theoretically speaking, it is possible for an individual person to be given a grace—an extremely special, indeed a miraculous grace—to know exactly which Books belong to the Canon of Scripture. And, this would have to be a miraculous grace considering the fact that the Church, as a whole, took hundreds of years to be able to discern this correctly, and this only after a good degree of difficulty in discerning the correct Books (for, again, there were a number of disagreements even amongst holy and learned Christian men as to which Books were Divinely Inspired—i.e., truly Authored by the Holy Spirit—and which were not). Now, is it your claim that you yourself have received such a miraculous grace?

And, even if you yourself have received such a miraculous grace to be able to correctly and infallibly discern, without relying on the judgment of the Church, which Books belong to the Canon (and which do not), the fact would still remain that the rest of humanity, at least in general, do NOT receive such a grace and, therefore, they need to rely on the judgment of the Church in order for them to know what the correct Canon of the Scripture is, i.e., to know WHAT the Scripture is. Thus, the ordinary way for a person to know what the Scripture is is to rely on the judgment of the Church, trusting in her judgment as to which Books belong in the Canon and which do not (i.e., which Books are truly Divinely Inspired, and which are not). And, the fact is, that Church has told us what the Canon is-- and that Canon, i.e., the true Canon, is, in fact, different from the canon that most Protestants follow (and, so, for this reason, I believe the Protestant canon is actually erroneous, for it is incomplete, and, thus, the Protestant Bible is actually not the complete Bible--- but to see this, one cannot appeal to Scripture itself but, rather, to the authentic traditions and judgments of the Church of Christ, i.e., the Catholic Church).

And this should not shock us, for the Scriptures themselves point us to the Church in many different places. After all, Christ did not directly give us the Scriptures, but, rather, He directly gave us the Church (and it is only through the Church that we receive the Scriptures). Thus, to read the Scriptures apart from the Church founded by Christ, i.e., the Catholic Church, and the authentic tradition of this Church, is like reading a family book apart from the family in which the story was produced…you might get some things out of that book, but you won’t get everything, and you’ll likely misinterpret a lot of things in the process.

In Christ, the Founder and Bridegroom of the Catholic Church,
BrotherAlan
"Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and always, and unto the ages of ages. Amen."

dizerner

Re: Catholics' View on Jesus and the Church

Post by dizerner » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:12 am

Brother Alan, thank you for your reply.
BrotherAlan wrote: Now, is it your claim that you yourself have received such a miraculous grace?
My claim is that, any sincere believer, of any educational level, at any time in history, can hear God's voice in the words of Scripture and know for a certain that the Holy Spirit is speaking to them personally. Indeed, it is a sad thing that many religious institutions have actually removed the words of God's Book from the common people at times, by perhaps saying it can only be read in Latin by certain learned and holy men, and the common man simply cannot understand or interpret it right. Yet Scripture loudly declares:

for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

As William Tyndale, who was martyred by a religious institution for simply wanting to make the Word of God accessible to every person, boldy said to a clergyman:

"If God spare my life, ere many years pass, I will cause a boy that driveth the plough shall know more of the Scriptures than thou dost."

And to that I can only say Amen and Amen.
Thus, the ordinary way for a person to know what the Scripture is is to rely on the judgment of the Church, trusting in her judgment as to which Books belong in the Canon and which do not (i.e., which Books are truly Divinely Inspired, and which are not).
Again, when you rely on the arm and strength of other men to guide you as to what is from God, you run the risk of the blind guiding the blind. You could just as well been born a Muslim or an atheist or a Hindu, and be forced to trust what their leaders say is inspired. The fact is God's Word clearly and boldly declares:

But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth.
After all, Christ did not directly give us the Scriptures, but, rather, He directly gave us the Church
Well I think the Holy Spirit gives us the Scriptures, and Christ is found in those Scriptures. Holy men of God wrote as they were carried along by the Spirit, and Christ said "You search the Scriptures, yet they speak of me." Indeed, Peter said we are born of those holy words of God, as an imperishable seed. Therefore I say, the Word of God is what gives us the Church of Christ, and not vice versa. I understand we may not find reconcilable ground on that, but I hope both respect each other's faith in Christ as Savior.

In Christ, the Founder and Bridegroom of all who personally know Him and follow His voice, for to many He will say I never knew you,
Brother dizerner

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