‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to Unite

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1477
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to Unite

Post by TK » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:18 am

Not sure exactly how I feel about this. I feel more on the negative side (quite a bit actually) than the positive side:
__________________________________________________________________________________________

‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to Unite Christians, Catholics on National Mall

"An ecumenical event featuring Hillsong United, Lecrae, Michael W. Smith, Josh McDowell, Ravi Zacharias, Francis Chan and other renown evangelical and Catholic speakers and musicians that is set to take place in Washington, D.C. is raising concerns as it seeks to draw a million attendees to “link arms” in unity, including with the Vatican.

“Together 2016” is an event to be held on July 16 at the National Mall in Washington, and seeks to unite those of various backgrounds to “stand together for Jesus.” Both Christians and Catholics alike will be featured at the prayer and worship event.

“Together 2016 is about laying aside what divides us to lift up Jesus who unites us,” organizer Nick Hall of PULSE told Christian News Network. “We are coming together in historic unity to pray for a reset for our nation.”
.......

A little further down in the article:

"However, not everyone believes that Christians should link arms with Roman Catholics and set aside major differences that go to the heart of the gospel.

“Nick Hall either does not know the exclusivity of the gospel of God or he does not know the Roman Catholic plan of salvation because they are diametrically opposed,” Mike Gendron of Proclaiming the Gospel Ministries told Christian News Network. Gendron is a former Roman Catholic who now teaches evangelicals how to share the gospel with Catholics.
“We’re divided on how one is born again: Rome says water baptism, the Bible says the work of the Spirit. We’re divided on how one is justified: Rome says faith plus works, the Bible says faith. We’re divided on how one is purified of sin: Rome says purgatory, the Bible says the blood of Jesus. We’re divided on the essentials of the gospel: Rome has other mediators, the Bible says it’s Christ alone,” he explained.

Gendron said that Jesus himself came to divide with truth, and prayed that His Church would be sanctified with that truth.

“It was the Lord Jesus Christ who came to divide: He divides with His word and His gospel. He divides mother against daughter, father against son—and we must remain sanctified and not united with any who are not born again,” he explained. “More than ever, we must maintain the exclusivity of the gospel of Christ. What hope does an unbelieving world have unless we maintain the purity of the gospel?”

Gendron also stated that he is concerned about the message that it will send when Christians see evangelical leaders involved with an event that validates Roman Catholicism, and therefore does not view those in the religion as a mission field."

http://christiannews.net/2016/06/10/tog ... onal-mall/

crgfstr1
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:55 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by crgfstr1 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:41 am

Excellent point TK on Jesus coming to divide! Did the pope apologize for the catholic church killing millions of people including Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc? Did he admit that the bible not the pope is the authority on knowing God? There are many many other reforms but these are at/near the top of the list.

While I believe there are many good catholic people, I don't understand how anyone can be catholic if they read the bible or even just take a look at history. I guess we are so set on traditions of men that it can be hard to see past them.

User avatar
TheEditor
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:09 pm

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by TheEditor » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:14 am

I remember the tradionalist Catholic Malachi Martin being interviewed and he said John Paul II was endeavoring to create a dynamic in which all religions were united under the Catholic Church--Catholics, then Orthodox and Protestant, then Jews and then Muslims. Martin objected because he was a Papist and Jesuit--a fundamentalist Catholic. However, those words have stuck with me. Pope Francis is certainly a more ecumenical Pope. Perhaps if the Vatican set aside some of the Papal nonsense, there could be more of a ground for unity.

However, as it stands, that alone, Papal authority, is a deal breaker. As far as the rest is concerned, you can find as much division within Protestantism. In fact, you can find Protestants who are further apart from one another than they are from Catholics, doctrinally speaking. I also bristle when Jesus role as a "divider" is utilized by a preacher. Jesus' words merely mean that the reult of His teachings would be to divide, not that it was His stated objective. Anyone who has seen someone accept Christianity within a home that is non-Christian can see the truth in Jesus' words. But the goal is that the unbeliever be won over, not that the division takes place merely for the sake of division. Also, usually the ones that use this verse are very "divisive" people that want others to agree with them, and do not want to be open minded to those who disagree with them on some matters of faith.

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by Paidion » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:37 am

Did the pope apologize for the catholic church killing millions of people including Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc?
Did Protestant leaders ever apologize for killing thousands of Anabaptists and Jews? Should we avoid fellowship with Protestants because their forefathers killed Anabaptists and Jews and didn't apologize? If not, why should we avoid fellowship with Catholics on that basis?

At first Martin Luther said that Anabaptists, though in the wrong, were to be pitied. But later on, he had them killed. His hatred of the Jews is evident from his booklet "The Jews and Their Lies. Some excerpts from this book can be found here:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... _Jews.html

If anyone would like to read the full text, let me know.

Here are just a few excerpts:
I shall give you my sincere advice:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly ­ and I myself was unaware of it ­ will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy [17:10] in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew [16:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.

Fifth, I advise that safe ­conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.

Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam [Gen 3:19]. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.
Last edited by Paidion on Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by Paidion » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:44 am

Brenden wrote:I also bristle when Jesus role as a "divider" is utilized by a preacher. Jesus' words merely mean that the reult of His teachings would be to divide, not that it was His stated objective.
Image
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1477
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by TK » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:13 am

The danger in this proposed "unity" is that it is a false unity. There are exceedingly vital issues in regard to salvation, justification, sanctification etc that simply cannot be reconciled. Christian unity is more than being nice to each other. It has to be based on truth. Evangelicalism/protestantism and Catholicism cannot both be true, just as Judaism and Christianity cannot both be true. Jews and Christians can never have unity Jesus talks about in John 17. With Catholicism it is a tad more complicated because some Catholics are truly saved if perhaps by the skin of their teeth if they in fact are practicing catholics.

If evangelicals see evangelical leaders they respect and admire embracing catholicism, what message does that send?

It is my hope that when Francis Chan speaks he will speak correction and the plain biblical truth regardless of his audience.

crgfstr1
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:55 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by crgfstr1 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:43 am

Paidion wrote:
Did the pope apologize for the catholic church killing millions of people including Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc?
Did Protestant leaders ever apologize for killing thousands of Anabaptists and Jews? Should we avoid fellowship with Protestants because their forefathers killed Anabaptists and Jews and didn't apologize? If not, why should we avoid fellowship with Catholics on that basis?
Yep, I agree apologizes are needed there as well. I have no problem with fellowship among any Christian (including Catholics). I think denominations should be done away with. Not by bringing them all together into one church, but by having each church stand on its own but support other churches as needs arise. Having these corporate entities that are separated from the people in the church is where corruption seeps in. Membership makes things exclusive so I don't know about that either. We should seek to be inclusive that everyone professing Christ with Love is included and everyone who doesn't we should seek to share the light with them.

They should know we are Christians first and foremost by our love not our sound doctrine. We can lovingly debate the doctrine. Much of it has little to do with the way we live our lives nor our salvation. I doubt the man on the cross had sound doctrine but it didn't matter. He got the important part.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by Paidion » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:26 pm

Image
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

User avatar
Paidion
Posts: 5452
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Back Woods of North-Western Ontario

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by Paidion » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:37 pm

Hi TK, you wrote: Christian unity is more than being nice to each other. It has to be based on truth.
How do you know what is true? Christian unity is not based on philosophical or theological agreement. It is based on discipleship.
All who are disciples of Christ, who have forsaken the self-life to submit to his Lordship, are united under the authority of Christ and are part of the one-and-only true Church, the one that Christ founded.

Switch the "i" and the "t" in "united" and you get "untied".

If people base their unity on "truth" (which in practice is philosophical and/or theological agreement) they may be united in that agreement, but they are untied from the rest of the Body of Christ.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1477
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: ‘Together 2016’ Organizer Meets With ‘Pope Francis’ to U

Post by TK » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:47 pm

Agreed Paidion-

But can a true disciple of Christ continue in the RCC with its Maryolatry and other abominations? To me it is more than a denominational difference, because it is highly questionable whether the RCC is even a Christian denomination.

I guess what I am saying is that it is highly questionable that a true Christian can practice RC, including participating in the hellish Mass, any more than a true Christian can practice Mormonism or Jehovah Witnessism. If they can, what was the Reformation all about?

Post Reply

Return to “Roman Catholicism”