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by __id_1679
Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:48 am
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: Is There Harm in teaching Universalism?
Replies: 112
Views: 46397

Hello Steve7150, Excuse my interuption between your conversation with Homer. I have observed from those who entertain CU as a viable alternative to "traditional" views regarding the final disposition of the "wicked dead", two very critical flaws in their reasoning: 1) that the idea that God is Love ...
by __id_1679
Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:31 am
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: Is There Harm in teaching Universalism?
Replies: 112
Views: 46397

Danny, What I have written, I have written. BTW, I was not offended or upset by your questions regarding my mother. Everyone of course wants the best for their loved ones. But since God did not make me a co-judge, and knows the heart better than anyone, my confidence will rest in His righteousness. ...
by __id_1679
Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:31 am
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: Is There Harm in teaching Universalism?
Replies: 112
Views: 46397

Danny, Quote: " Do you think your mom deserves eternal torment? The second question is like it. You know, probably better than almost anyone, what a unique and precious person your mother was. Do you think she deserves to cease to exist altogether"? You want a straight forward and honest answer how ...
by __id_1679
Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:17 pm
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: Is There Harm in teaching Universalism?
Replies: 112
Views: 46397

Danny, Quote: " Regarding what happens to those who die having never heard or understood the Gospel, I didn't inquire so much about what you personally know, but asked "How does your system of belief answer this question?" There are certain details Jesus doesn't disclose to us. I do not follow anyon...
by __id_1679
Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:13 pm
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: The Second Death
Replies: 46
Views: 22450

Hi Derek, Quote: " I believe that images of fire and brimstone, as well as what "gehenna" surely meant in the ears of Jesus' audience, suggest destruction, consumation and judgement more than anything else". Actually, Jewish thought on Gehenna varied as much as we do on what the final Judgement of G...
by __id_1679
Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:37 pm
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: Is There Harm in teaching Universalism?
Replies: 112
Views: 46397

Hello Paidion, Quote: "That they suffered death is a quite different matter than their suffering eternal torture, or even annihilation. As Origen put it, all rational beings have been created in order to exist. So their non-existence would defeat that purpose. Also their existence in an eternal stat...
by __id_1679
Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:36 pm
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: Is There Harm in teaching Universalism?
Replies: 112
Views: 46397

Steve, I completely agree with your evaluation. It is indeed God's call and His alone to "judge us according to our works". But even here, there is a distinction made by God over the the works of the faithful and the works of the un-godly wicked. There is a difference how we will be 'judged' as beli...
by __id_1679
Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:39 pm
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: Is There Harm in teaching Universalism?
Replies: 112
Views: 46397

Danny, To pick up where I left off... With respect to "proportional justice", I am not arguing for the moment with God's final disposition of the wicked. What I am trying to get at is the question; By what measure does a Universalist use to determine whether or not, God's punishment is "fair" and or...
by __id_1679
Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:17 pm
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: "Aionios" NEVER means "eternal"
Replies: 77
Views: 44458

Hello Benzoaic, Quote: "for the things which are seen are temporal (this Greek word does literally mean temporal - for a season), but the things which are not seen are eternal (aiwnios)." How are they used to define the final outcome of the wicked? Is eternal seperation of the wicked a valid interpr...
by __id_1679
Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:56 am
Forum: Views of Hell
Topic: Is There Harm in teaching Universalism?
Replies: 112
Views: 46397

Danny, Quote: "So do you presume that God is omnipotent? Do you presume that He is omniscient? Do you presume that He is good and holy? Based on what? Proof? Can you prove any of these things? No, the best you (or I) can do is offer evidence. You (and I) presume these (and many other) things about G...

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