Kingdom to be taken by force

Post by **_Brad** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:28 am

I know Steve discusses this verse in one of his lectures, but can't remember what was said:

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of Heaven is taken by violence, and the violent take it by force.

What is meant here?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:13 pm

I think it has to do with overcoming Satan by a spiritual battle with evil and persecution. The violence is not a physical war but a spiritual overcoming of evil which is doing everything to block the kingdom of God.

Post by **_loaves** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:48 pm

Brad wrote:I know Steve discusses this verse in one of his lectures, but can't remember what was said:

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of Heaven is taken by violence, and the violent take it by force.

What is meant here?

Yeah, what Steve7150 said.

Satan won't go down without a fight. And without taking souls down with Him.

Satan probably had Jesus in his crosshairs from when Jesus was baptized, until the present day in which Jesus was speaking.

Satan had particular attention on Jesus. That's why we see Satan himself manifesting himself to Jesus, rather than his minions.

Satan was ultimately defeated on the Cross.

Post by **_Christopher** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:08 pm

Whenever a saint walks in the Spirit rather than fullfilling the lust of the flesh, the kingdom of darkness suffers violence.

Whenever a saint is obedient unto death, the kingdom of darkness suffers violence.

Whenever the saints dwell in unity rather than dividing, the kingdom of darkness suffers violence.

Whenever the saints ease the suffering of the poor and afflicted, the kingdom of darkness suffers violence.

Whenever the gospel is preached and souls are won, the kindom of darkness suffers violence.

Whenever the saints believe in the power of prayer and exercise that power, the kingdom of darkness suffers violence.

That which is quiet, meek, and humble obedience to Jesus on earth, is a death blow in the heavenlies. In this manner, the saints are violent and take the kingdom by FORCE.

Post by **_Paidion** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:08 pm

I have pondered the verse from time to time for years.

Some good attempts (in the posts above) have been made to make sense of it. I have looked at the explanations of commentators. They say much the same as has been said above.

I still have not read an explanation that seem entirely satisfactory.

...violent men take it by force.

There still seems to be something missing in all of the explanations.

Post by **_Brad** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:39 pm

Christopher wrote:That which is quiet, meek, and humble obedience to Jesus on earth, is a death blow in the heavenlies. In this manner, the saints are violent and take the kingdom by FORCE.

I like this. This seems to go well with:
1Co 1:27-28 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and God has chosen the base things of the world, and things which are despised, and things which are not, in order to bring to nothing things that are;

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:37 pm

Okay, Brad. You like Christopher's statements. But are you satisfied that his statements explain "violent men"?

But would you yourself describe quiet, meek, and humble people as "violent"? Do you know of anyone (other than our Lord in Matt 11:12) who decribes them as "violent"? Do you know any other instance in all history, where the quiet, meek, and humble are described as "violent"?

That is my problem with this explanation.

Post by **_Christopher** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:59 pm

Hi Paidion,

I think the word "violent men" can be metaphorical for those who conquer or defeat their foe. Jesus certainly did that to Satan at the cross, and by His power believers are also conquerors over the powers of darkness. Remember we "wrestle" against those powers. I'm not entirely certain how being meek and obedient is doing violence in the heavenlies, but God's ways often seem enigmatic and paradoxical to us.

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:35 pm

Thanks, Christopher.

I certainly don't have a more satisfying explanation.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:12 pm

Maybe it's making a more literal parallel to what Paul said about "putting on the full armor of God" for if you are wearing armor are you not readying yourself for a violent battle?

The Narrow Path Ministries

Kingdom to be taken by force

Kingdom to be taken by force

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