Our pastor today talked about something I have never heard before- wonder if any of you have.
Apparently the shepherds around Bethlehem were specifically raising sheep for the purpose of Passover sacrifices. There was a watchtower near here (Migdal Eder) that the shephered used to watch the flocks. When a sheep was about to give birth, they would take this sheep to a stable, and assist in the birth. They would inspect the lamb and if it was without blemish they would wrap the newborn lamb in swaddling cloths.
So, when the Angel appeared to these shepherds and said that the SIGN would be a babe wrapped in swaddling clothes lying in a manger, it had special significance for them.
I thought this was awesome, and I had never heard this before.
TK
The Bethlehem Shepherds
-
kaufmannphillips
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:00 pm
Re: The Bethlehem Shepherds
I would be interested in the source(s) behind this portrayal.
Through the interwebs, I have found one writer who refers back to Edersheim's The Life And Times Of Jesus The Messiah {2.6; pub. 1883/90}, which in turn references a number of rabbinic texts {Mishnah Sheqalim 7.4; Mishnah Bava Qamma 7.7; Bavli Bava Qamma 80a}.
To begin with, there is an underlying methodological question: viz., whether mishnaic and/or talmudic statements reflect practices in the time of Jesus. Appeals to rabbinic literature must be tentative, for a number of reasons. On one hand, the literature develops well after the Second Temple period, with the Mishnah being compiled/produced around two centuries after the time of Jesus, and the Talmuds even later. On another hand, the literature may preserve traditions that had limited influence during the early first century, when there was diversity and competition between various Jewish sects.
Beyond this, Edersheim's rabbinic texts do not quite substantiate the portrayal put forth above. Mishnah Sheqalim 7.4 is discussing what to do with animals that are found within a certain distance of Jerusalem, including Migdal Eder and a lot of other territory at comparable distance. The rule is to assume that these are sacrificial animals or Passover lambs, but this might have been because the animals were considered (or feared) to have wandered off from pilgrims who were bringing devoted animals to the Jerusalem temple. The mishnaic text makes no reference to local flocks or to local shepherds.
Mishnah Bava Qamma 7.7 indicates that flocks would be improper in the land of Israel, except in the wilderness; but the talmudic reference, Bavli Bava Qamma 80a, indicates that some shepherds might act improperly, and 79b indicates that there was an exception for up to thirty days prior to a festival or a wedding. This exception was not limited to any particular locale within the land of Israel.
So there should not have been shepherds with flocks in fields, unless the "fields" could be pled as wilderness; or unless it was near the time of a festival (which could have been one of a number of others besides Passover); or unless there was going to be a wedding; or unless the shepherds weren't pious about this particular rule. Or unless the Mishnah and/or Talmud are preserving traditions that are not from first-century Judaea anyway.
From these texts, there is no firm basis for asserting that there were shepherds in the fields, raising Passover lambs and swaddling them in cloths. Could there have been shepherds who raised lambs in fields around Bethlehem? Maybe. Could some of those lambs have been used for Passover? Maybe. Could some of them have been swaddled in cloths? Maybe. Could some of the lambs have been named "Jesus" by affectionate shepherds
? Ah, maybe. But these rabbinical texts do not say (much less prove) one way or the other.
Through the interwebs, I have found one writer who refers back to Edersheim's The Life And Times Of Jesus The Messiah {2.6; pub. 1883/90}, which in turn references a number of rabbinic texts {Mishnah Sheqalim 7.4; Mishnah Bava Qamma 7.7; Bavli Bava Qamma 80a}.
To begin with, there is an underlying methodological question: viz., whether mishnaic and/or talmudic statements reflect practices in the time of Jesus. Appeals to rabbinic literature must be tentative, for a number of reasons. On one hand, the literature develops well after the Second Temple period, with the Mishnah being compiled/produced around two centuries after the time of Jesus, and the Talmuds even later. On another hand, the literature may preserve traditions that had limited influence during the early first century, when there was diversity and competition between various Jewish sects.
Beyond this, Edersheim's rabbinic texts do not quite substantiate the portrayal put forth above. Mishnah Sheqalim 7.4 is discussing what to do with animals that are found within a certain distance of Jerusalem, including Migdal Eder and a lot of other territory at comparable distance. The rule is to assume that these are sacrificial animals or Passover lambs, but this might have been because the animals were considered (or feared) to have wandered off from pilgrims who were bringing devoted animals to the Jerusalem temple. The mishnaic text makes no reference to local flocks or to local shepherds.
Mishnah Bava Qamma 7.7 indicates that flocks would be improper in the land of Israel, except in the wilderness; but the talmudic reference, Bavli Bava Qamma 80a, indicates that some shepherds might act improperly, and 79b indicates that there was an exception for up to thirty days prior to a festival or a wedding. This exception was not limited to any particular locale within the land of Israel.
So there should not have been shepherds with flocks in fields, unless the "fields" could be pled as wilderness; or unless it was near the time of a festival (which could have been one of a number of others besides Passover); or unless there was going to be a wedding; or unless the shepherds weren't pious about this particular rule. Or unless the Mishnah and/or Talmud are preserving traditions that are not from first-century Judaea anyway.
From these texts, there is no firm basis for asserting that there were shepherds in the fields, raising Passover lambs and swaddling them in cloths. Could there have been shepherds who raised lambs in fields around Bethlehem? Maybe. Could some of those lambs have been used for Passover? Maybe. Could some of them have been swaddled in cloths? Maybe. Could some of the lambs have been named "Jesus" by affectionate shepherds
? Ah, maybe. But these rabbinical texts do not say (much less prove) one way or the other.Re: The Bethlehem Shepherds
I am not sure what the source was. I will try to find out.
TK
TK
-
kaufmannphillips
- Posts: 585
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:00 pm
Re: The Bethlehem Shepherds
Thanks, TK.
Re: The Bethlehem Shepherds
I did a quick google search and found several articles that reference this info but i didnt see any sources quoted, almost like it was "common knowledge." I will keep inquiring.
TK
TK