My father's House

[Homer]

Heard a very interesting take today on this passage:

John 14:1-4, New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14. “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4. And you know the way where I am going."

The preaching minister at our church leads a group each year to Israel. He said they visited what was purportedly Peter's family home in Galilee. The homes are interesting in that they are a sprawling group of rooms. As was the custom at the time of Jesus, young men who took a bride went back to their father's home and built an additional room to live in with the new bride. Thus the many "dwelling places" in the father's house for all the sons and their wives. So if we apply their cultural understanding, Jesus has gone to His Father's home to prepare a dwelling place for His bride. Makes sense both culturally and scripturally.

[Paidion]

Hi Homer,

Yes, that is an interesting take, all right. What I'm going to say now is another interesting take:

The Assembly of God or "Church" as Jesus taught it in John 14

John 14 is not a description of heaven. In scripture, heaven is never called "God's house". In this passage, Jesus is telling his disciples that they need not be troubled when He goes away, for He will prepare for them a dwelling place. He will establish a dwelling place for them in the great Assembly or "Church" which He would establish. This Assembly is the house of God. The Father and the Son DID come to them on that special day of Pentecost, when the disciples were filled with the spirit of the Father and of the Son! Jesus came to take them to Himself, so that where He was (in the Assembly), they would be also!

First , let’s consider a few other scriptures that describe the Church:

Body
The Church of Christ is the Body of Christ. There is no difference between the two.

...and he has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church,
which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. Ephesians 1:22,23

I Corinthians 12 describes the spiritual gifts in the church, and then compares the members of the Church to the various members of the human body. Each member of the body is needed.

Field, Building
I Corinthians 3:9 Paul refers to the Christians at Corinth to whom he is writing as “God’s field” and “God’s building”.

Temple
Gentiles are no longer strangers, but both Jews and Gentiles are fellow citizens of the household of God built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:20-22

House
I Peter 2:4:5 Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God’s sight chosen and precious; and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

And lest it is still not clear what God’s house is:

Therefore, Holy Brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house.For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.
Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope, firm until the end. (Hebrews 3:1-6)

So the real house of God is the Church. That’s where God truly dwells. In the OT, the tabernacle as well as the temple were called “the house of God” and were also called “the house of Yahweh”. Jesus, also, referred to the tabernacle as “the house of God when he was speaking of David entering it and asking for food, and eating the bread of Yahweh’s presence. God indeed did dwell in the tabernacle and the temple temporarily until the Christ founded his church. They were symbols of the true House of God to come.

Nowhere in scripture is heaven called the house of God. If one already believes it sometimes is called that, he might interpret that last verse of Psalm 23 as a reference to heaven. But the whole Psalm is about David’s trust in Yahweh in this present life! “Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of Yahweh for length of days.” Isn't David talking about the temple? That's where God dwelt during the times of the first covenant, and so that's where David wished to dwell, to spend his time in worship.

Psalms 27:4 One thing have I asked of Yahweh that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of Yahweh all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of Yahweh, and to inquire in his temple.

Later in chapter 14 of John, Jesus explains again in different words how He will not forsake them, but that He and the Father will come and make their dwelling with them. Is that not what comprises the Assembly (or "Church") which Christ founded? Is it not made up of the Father and the Son, and the disciples of Christ?

"I will not leave you desolate; I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more, but you will see me; because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."

Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, "Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?"

Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and We will come to him and make our home with him. (John 14:18-23)

The House of God! What a wonderful House! For David, the temple was where God dwelt, and David wanted to dwell there permanently. But for us, the Assembly of God's people is where we are most joyful! For the Father and the Son dwell with us and in us. Jesus did not forsake His disciples when He ascended to the Father, but the spirit of Jesus and the Father dwell within us.

Yes, Jesus has prepared for each of his disciples a dwelling place in the House of God! Peter called us "living stones". Unlike the bricks which formed the tower of Babel, each one being the same, the living stones are different. Each one is unique. Yet each one fits exactly in the place which has been prepared for it. Hallelujah! There is no other house like the House of God!

[Bud]

Thanks Homer for relaying that message, its a beautiful picture. I've just been recently thinking again how our family lives might be much better if we could structure them physically like Peters' was and others of his time.
I affirm that His house is the Church. Yet I see Homers' post with its metaphor as still working.

God bless you all,

[Homer]

Hi Paidion,

It seems to me that it would be difficult to fit your rejection of the Trinity with your explanation of "my Father's house". Jesus has been resurrected with a physical body, one that could consume food. He is located now with His Father. We could go to be located with Him. If the reference in John 14 is to Him being with us in our assembly, "where two or three are gathered", how can we be with Him if not with His personal Spirit? Surely John 14 does not mean something like "the force be with you", or "I am with you in my thoughts".

The church tradition I have long been associated with, although most might of them reject the term, are sacramental. They hold the assembly in high regard. God is really present with His people when they assemble, as in the OT Israel. His Spirit is there. Do you see this as the case in your understanding of John 14. and if so in what way is God personally present?

If John 14 is about literally being in Jesus' presence, it easily fits the eschaton, not so easy to understand otherwise. Or do you see our being with Him as some sort or union in the church universal?

[Paidion]

If the reference in John 14 is to Him being with us in our assembly, "where two or three are gathered", how can we be with Him if not with His personal Spirit? Surely John 14 does not mean something like "the force be with you", or "I am with you in my thoughts".

I am puzzled. I think you must be misunderstanding my non-Trinitarian position. It is exactly because of Christ's personal spirit, that we are with Him in His Body.

And no! John 14 does NOT mean something like "the force be with you", or "I am with you in my thoughts". Rather the personal spirit of the Father and of the Son is present with us. This person spirit IS the very Persons of the Father and of the Son. They can extend their spirit or personality anywhere in the universe, whereas your personality and my personality are confined to our bodies.

[Homer]

Paidion,

You wrote:

Rather the personal spirit of the Father and of the Son is present with us. This person spirit IS the very Persons of the Father and of the Son. They can extend their spirit or personality anywhere in the universe, whereas your personality and my personality are confined to our bodies.

So now we are both puzzled. Your answer seems so close to Trinitarian that it seems you make a distinction without a difference, or a significant difference anyway.

[Paidion]

Okay, here is the difference. Trinitarians believe that there is only one GOD, a compound GOD, a Trinity of three divine Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They call each of these Persons "God", that is, "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit." We read of "God the Father" in the Bible, but never "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit."

My belief is identical to that of Jesus, that the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3)

Paul also believed in one God—the Father:

For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (I Corinthians 8:5,6)

If Paul had been a Trinitarian, he would have written, "... yet for us there is one God, the Trinity, composed of the Father and the Son Jesus Christ, from whom and through whom are all things and for whom and through whom we exist."

Though I believe the Father is the only true God, yet I believe the Son of God to be fully divine. Why? Because the Father begat Him, (and that marked the beginning of time), and therefore, the Son is "the exact imprint of His [the Father's] essence (Hebrews 1:3). And since the Son is the ONLY-begotten Son, there are exactly two divine Individuals—the Father and the Son. I don't believe the Son was created out of nothing, and the 4th-century Arians are thought to have believed, but rather that He was generated by God (or "begotten", if you prefer). Not was there "a time at which the Son did not exist", as the Arians were supposed to have affirmed. For there was no time before the beginning of time.

The Father and the Son can extend their personalities anywhere in the universe. This extension is the called "the spirit of God" or "the spirit of the Son" or "the holy spirit". I'm okay with capitalizing "The Holy Spirit" since the Spirit is the very Persons of the Father and the Son (not a THIRD divine Person). Paul said that the Lord [Jesus] IS the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:18 ).

I used to think I was a Binitarian, but that implies that there is one God in TWO Persons, God the Father and God the Son. Now I realize I was mistaken. This concept poses the same problems as the Trinitarian concept—still a compound God, but with Two Persons instead of Three.