Jesus and parables?

Post by **_Erich** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:53 pm

I'm looking for additional insight into Mark 4:11 along with it’s corresponding passages (Matt 13:11-17, Luke 8:10, John 12:39-43, Is 6:9). How are we to take Jesus' explanation for using parables in regards to man's free will? It seems Mark uses "that" (hina) instead of "because" (hoti) which is found in Mathew which seems to make Mark's quote to follow more with the context in Is 6:9 in that the peoples in ability to see or hear was meant to happen in order for God to judge them. Again I'm just looking for other people’s thoughts and insights to help me gain a better understanding. If this topic is covered somewhere else though could someone please send me the link, thanks.

Erich <><

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:06 pm

Jesus said they were'nt given to understand OTHERWISE they would turn and their sins be forgiven. Most would say this was God's judgement against those Pharisees. I'm not so sure it's only those pharisees. I know almost everyone believes in purely freewill but God can do anything and he does'nt owe us explanations and there may be more happening. As Paul said to the gentiles about the jews "they are enemies of the gospel for your sake."

Post by **_Roger** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:14 pm

Erich......I believe the answer to your question is because of an incedent in the previous chapter. In chapter 3 of Mark, starting at verse 22 it says:"And the scribes who came down from Jersalem said, He has Beelzebub, and, By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons." Then if you continue on to verse 28 Jesus says: "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter: but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" because they said "He has an unclean spirit."
Now when you go on into Mark chapter 4, Jesus begins to teach in parables. Why? The answer is given in verse 12," so that Seeing they may see and not percieve,and hearing they may hear and not understand
Lest.......(and this part is crucial).......Lest they should turn, and their sins be forgiven them."
These people who said he cast out demons by Beelzebub had just been told they would never have forgiveness. So Jesus purposely spoke to them in parables "Lest" they should turn. If those people would have understood and turned then Jesus would have had to forgive them. And He could not put himself in that position. That's why the word "Lest" is so importent here. Jesus could not speak to them in a way that would have caused them to turn or they would have had to have been forgiven....and this is something they could not have(forgiveness) because of they had Blasphemed the Holy Spirit as recorded in the previous chapter. And this is the reason He spoke to them in parables.

Post by **_Homer** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:48 am

Roger,

Very interesting but hard for me to grasp:

God has promised to forgive us if we repent.
God says if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you will never be forgiven.
For the person who blasphemes the Holy Spirit, God takes measures to ensure they can never repent, otherwise He would be required to forgive them.

The questions this brings to my mind are these:

1. Is God obliged to some principle higher than Himself?

2. If someone sins against us, can we take steps to prevent their repentence? If not, wouldn't we be required to be more forgiving than God?

I may be wrong but I've long thought rejection of Christ was blaspheming against the Holy Spirit who testifies about Jesus.

Post by **_Roger** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:05 pm

Homer..........I don't believe that the rejection of Christ is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I believe that this is something very different. I believe that the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit was something done by those scribes at that time. Jesus...who as the very God incarnated in human flesh was living, doing, and acting in every way in union with God the Father and by the Holy Spirit. When those scribes witnessed this wonderful living out of God in human form and called it "Beelzebub", that very act by them was the Blasphemey of the Holy Spirit. It was far more then just the rejection of Christ. To call this Holy Spirit Beelzebub is unforgiveable.
I don't get to make any of the rules. I only, by Gods great mercy, get to read the Holy word of God and submit to what God has had written there.

Post by **_Roger** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:42 pm

A further word Homer.........I don't know why this particular act carries such a harsh response from God towards it. In Mark 3:28 the Lord says that "all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they blaspheme", but then in verse 29: "But whoever blashemes against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of an everlasting sin." I don't know why this is so.
When Satan exalted himself to challange the very person of God, the result was catastrophic. I just know that this act by these scribes was of such offense to God that the result was "no forgiveness forever". I don't know why. Maybe some day we will recieve revelation from God and we will know the answer.

Post by **_Homer** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:39 pm

Roger,

Do you believe this sin can be commited today?

Post by **_Roger** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:21 am

Homer.....at this time in my life I believe this sin was unique to those scribes that actually said that Jesus was doing things by Beelzebub. If I can be shown differently by the word then I am open to correction by the word at all times.