1 Thes 3:17

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darinhouston
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1 Thes 3:17

Post by darinhouston » Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:01 am

May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.


I'm curious what your thoughts are on this passage. If we are to be seen as blameless in the presence of God due to his atoning work alone, then what is Paul getting at here? Certainly in James and elsewhere we are told to work out our salvation and are reminded that our works are evidence of the faith that causes us to be blameless, but here Paul seems to clearly be stating that our actions (or at least the state of our hearts) relate to our "blameworthiness" on the day of judgment. Not just our positional relationship with Jesus and our faith in him and his work or our submission to him and so forth, but something beyond that.

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Homer
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Re: 1 Thes 3:17

Post by Homer » Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:44 pm

Hi Darin,

Isn't your quote from 1 Thess. 3:13, similar to 5:23?

Thanks, Homer

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dwight92070
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Re: 1 Thes 3:17

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:39 pm

darinhouston wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:01 am
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.


I'm curious what your thoughts are on this passage. If we are to be seen as blameless in the presence of God due to his atoning work alone, then what is Paul getting at here? Certainly in James and elsewhere we are told to work out our salvation and are reminded that our works are evidence of the faith that causes us to be blameless, but here Paul seems to clearly be stating that our actions (or at least the state of our hearts) relate to our "blameworthiness" on the day of judgment. Not just our positional relationship with Jesus and our faith in him and his work or our submission to him and so forth, but something beyond that.
I think Paul is saying that he wants them (and us) to be holy in their EVERYDAY WALK, that is, always set apart for God's use, and BLAMELESS. That does not mean that they reach a state of no longer sinning, but rather a maturity where they sin less and less, and when they do sin, that they waste no time in confessing it, receiving His forgiveness and cleansing. Ultimately, yes, our being blameless in His presence can only be attributed to His atonement. But practically, our WORKS OF OBEDIENCE do matter greatly in God's eyes. In fact, we are told repeatedly that we will be judged by our works. One of those critical works is to quickly and consistently confess our sins, and receive His forgiveness. But our works must go way "BEYOND THAT". Paul told Titus that we are to be ZEALOUS FOR GOOD DEEDS. Yes, I do think our "ACTIONS RELATE TO OUR BLAMELESSNESS ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT". Matthew 25:31 "I was hungry and you gave Me food. I was thirsty and you gave Me drink. I was a stranger and you invited Me in; naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me." There was a lot of BLAME assigned to those who did not minister to the hungry and thirsty, the stranger, the naked, the sick, and the prisoner. In fact, they lost their souls. Those who obey Jesus are considered BLAMELESS.

Remember Zacharias and Elizabeth, the parents of John the Baptist. Luke 1:6 says, "They were both righteous in the sight of God, WALKING BLAMELESSLY in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord." Also "Noah was a righteous man, BLAMELESS in his time; Noah WALKED with God." Genesis 6:9 and Job in Job 1:8, "Have you considered my servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a BLAMELESS and upright man, FEARING GOD and TURNING AWAY FROM EVIL."

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darinhouston
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Re: 1 Thes 3:17

Post by darinhouston » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:56 pm

Homer wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:44 pm
Hi Darin,

Isn't your quote from 1 Thess. 3:13, similar to 5:23?

Thanks, Homer
Yes, it is very similar.

dizerner

Re: 1 Thes 3:17

Post by dizerner » Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:33 am

From the heart man BELIEVES, faith justifies, no contradiction.

Paul often prayed for an established faith in others.

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mikew
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Re: 1 Thes 3:17

Post by mikew » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:31 am

darinhouston wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:01 am
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.


I'm curious what your thoughts are on this passage. If we are to be seen as blameless in the presence of God due to his atoning work alone, then what is Paul getting at here? Certainly in James and elsewhere we are told to work out our salvation and are reminded that our works are evidence of the faith that causes us to be blameless, but here Paul seems to clearly be stating that our actions (or at least the state of our hearts) relate to our "blameworthiness" on the day of judgment. Not just our positional relationship with Jesus and our faith in him and his work or our submission to him and so forth, but something beyond that.
The previous verses are helpful here
Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus, direct our way to you, 12 and may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, as we do for you, 13 so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints. (ESV)

The work is upon the Lord who increases their love for one another. The focus then is on this love displayed through their lives. Paul presents this as a blessing which should lead to an expectancy which may lead to a mindset and probable action toward this care for each other.

The deeper idea may be that this love-based state will be completed or solidified at the time of that coming but they could get a head start by exhibiting that love beforehand.
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