Challenge -- Write Like Paul

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mikew
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Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by mikew » Fri May 19, 2023 11:53 am

Paul writes in a continuous well-connected fashion. If someone has the term for this style of writing, please share it.
The challenge is to write out some ideas (or doctrines) in this tightly interwoven fashion. It is okay, however, just to ask questions or add some more insights into this style.

We see the text of Rom 4:1-8 ( in the ebible.org translation)
1 What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not toward God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”* 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed. 5 But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man whom the Lord will by no means charge with sin.
This example shows the issue of boasting in vv 1-2 but then verse 3 transitions to the topic of faith. Then v 4 is somewhat transitional since v 5 goes into the singular word "work" which leaps off the idea of works in v 4. Key to this interwoven fashion is found with the words "what then," "For," "now," and "but." Sure, some continuities are found here. Some common themes appear. But we have gone from some issue of fleshly boasting into the idea of David being blessed despite his sins."

The challenge could be done in the reverse sense. Paraphrase the passage in the fashion that you would write stuff.
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mikew
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Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by mikew » Fri May 19, 2023 12:12 pm

Here's an example of taking part of this passage and saying it the way I might (but without the nuances Paul uses).
What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not toward God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”* 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed. 5 But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man whom the Lord will by no means charge with sin.
1 In light of the boasting in works of the law of some Jews, what would you say Abraham has found about works and boasting?
2 Let's suppose Abraham was justified by works of the law. Certainly he would have reason to boast. But this would not count in God's eyes.
3 Why doesn't it count? Its because, as we see in scripture, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
4 If someone is trying to do works of the law, any reward he gets is not a gift, but is something owed. (Not much different from the translation.)
5 You can't and should not work to be justified with God but rather you should believe that God will justify. This is even seen with David who, while living ungodly, still had faith toward God. etc..

My style involves many extra words that I feel are needed to organize my thoughts and convey that logic to the reader. (I'm not trying to accurately convey Paul's message here. This rendition only presents a superficial paraphrase of the verses.)

Another aspect of Paul's style is to use a some words with dual meanings. In verse 4 the use of "work" refers to works of the law. but also is used like working a job after which a person gets paid for that work. The verse 5 uses "work" to convey the idea of not doing a job or perhaps not doing activity to be justified. These may seem to subtle (or absurd) with regards to making distinctions.
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dizerner

Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by dizerner » Fri May 19, 2023 9:38 pm

Paul used run-on sentences too much.

He was not a rhetorician.

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dwight92070
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Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by dwight92070 » Fri May 19, 2023 11:34 pm

I don't follow why you are doing this. Paul had his own way of writing, speaking, expressing himself, and teaching. Most, if not all of that was given to him by revelation, and therefore becomes the word of God. What is the purpose of us trying to write or speak in the same or similar way as he did. God chose Paul and his way of speaking to give us His word. It's not necessary for us to reinvent the wheel, or even to analyze it. Rather it's for us to meditate on it and obey it.

When I read different early church "fathers" which are not part of the canon of scripture, it seems to me that several of them are doing just that - attempting to talk, write, speak and teach like Paul, as if they were his equal. Some even espouse doctrine that either differs from Paul's, or that he does not mention at all. Paul was the original - many of the others seem to be acting as if they had equal authority and wisdom that Paul had. They didn't, which is obvious, because their words did not make the cut of being in the canon.

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Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by dwight92070 » Fri May 19, 2023 11:37 pm

By the way, if what Paul wrote was the word of God, how could you say that he did anything too much?

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Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by mikew » Sat May 20, 2023 11:55 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 11:34 pm
I don't follow why you are doing this. Paul had his own way of writing, speaking, expressing himself, and teaching. Most, if not all of that was given to him by revelation, and therefore becomes the word of God. What is the purpose of us trying to write or speak in the same or similar way as he did. God chose Paul and his way of speaking to give us His word. It's not necessary for us to reinvent the wheel, or even to analyze it. Rather it's for us to meditate on it and obey it.

When I read different early church "fathers" which are not part of the canon of scripture, it seems to me that several of them are doing just that - attempting to talk, write, speak and teach like Paul, as if they were his equal. Some even espouse doctrine that either differs from Paul's, or that he does not mention at all. Paul was the original - many of the others seem to be acting as if they had equal authority and wisdom that Paul had. They didn't, which is obvious, because their words did not make the cut of being in the canon.
That is interesting what you note about the "fathers" mimicking the style of Paul.

My purpose was mostly in pointing out some interesting aspects of his writing style. Also, knowing about his flexible use of words can help understand how he connects ideas together and makes the sentences merge together. I mentioned about writing something in that style to help understand his style. For me, I might get a more compact style to contrast with the way I paraphrased it.
On a somewhat different idea, I realized his style, as reflected in Rom 4:1-8, flows so well that he seems to make so much sense while reading the text. However, this example text actually is not well understood, especially when trying to figure out the context.
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Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by mikew » Sat May 20, 2023 12:11 pm

dizerner wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 9:38 pm
Paul used run-on sentences too much.

He was not a rhetorician.

If we are talking about general techniques of persuasion (rather than classical Roman rhetorical writing used in law and politics), Paul demonstrates great rhetorical prowess. The letter to the Romans, for example, uses the Nathan-David approach (of 2Sam 12:1-9) to sort of humble the gentiles and lead them to continue paying attention to what Paul is saying. Few people have noted the basis for Paul's use of the technique. Steve is one who has. Paul's technique was used so well that few theologians and scholarly writers have realized it was there. (Paul was not using this approach to appeal to the intellect but rather to stir up the emotions.)

The first two or three verses of Rom 4 use a technique I can indirect rebuke. This is derivative of the Nathan-David approach, which is designated as a juridical parable. In Rom 4:1-3, Paul denounces the boasting of outsiders Jews by demonstrating how useless it would be even for Abraham to boast in works.
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Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by agnp » Sun May 21, 2023 6:39 pm

Paul writing style is chiastic. That is a sequence leading to a main point and then the sequence is repeated in reverse order. In fact most of the Old and New Testament is written in this style. I call it the Holy Spirit style. https://www.chiasmusxchange.com/2015/02 ... ans-41-13/ Example

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Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by 3Resurrections » Mon May 22, 2023 2:49 pm

dizerner wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 9:38 pm
Paul used run-on sentences too much.

He was not a rhetorician.
For writing style, I would have to agree with you on the part about the run-on sentence structure. Or perhaps we should lay the responsibility for that on the translators who inserted the punctuation?

I would also agree on agnp's observation that Paul's writing style is chiastic. Now that you mention it, it does appear that all of human history is basically chiastic in structure - with Christ's crucifixion and resurrection in real time forming the "main point" in the center of human history. The OT ages pointed forward in time to that, and the NT ages are pointing back in time to that main point.

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Re: Challenge -- Write Like Paul

Post by mikew » Mon May 22, 2023 8:55 pm

agnp wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 6:39 pm
Paul writing style is chiastic. That is a sequence leading to a main point and then the sequence is repeated in reverse order. In fact most of the Old and New Testament is written in this style. I call it the Holy Spirit style. https://www.chiasmusxchange.com/2015/02 ... ans-41-13/ Example
There was some term to describe sort of the run-on sentence style Paul uses. I have not figured out the term yet. (Maybe I heard about ring composition and thought that was this run-on style of Paul's.) As to the chiastic aspect, I've not paid too much attention to that. It may be sort of a convention that functions a bit like doing an outline of points to share. I've not seen much insight into Paul's major points that were obtained by the discovery of chiasms in the text. Sometimes, the idea seems to be pushed too far by forcing the passage into a weak chiasm. It is interesting that there are people with a website for the purpose of sharing chiasms in the text.
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