Babylon

[Guest]

Hi,

Thanks for your responses. I wanted to share this with you, Steve, ever since getting your book, so was thrilled to find this forum.

I had never heard this theory before either but have been praying for understanding for the Book of Revelation since 1979 and it was a long time coming. However I believe the Lord tried to show me this in 1979 but I had just heard about Rome being the harlot and was a baby Christian and when I read about the Byzantine Empire was too ignorant of history to realize it WAS the Roman Empire.

About the harlotry. I have so many references... at home... I recently borrowed a book from the library about Roman art. There's a good quote in that how after Constantine "Christian" art adopted Roman art "lock, stock and barrel". The source or "mother" of much of the paganism that flooded the church in the fourth century was Constantinople.

I also have several pictures of Constantinople personified as a "queen." If I can scan them I could try and post them. One is a golden cup with a personification of Constantinople as a queen. It is in the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Has anyone ever read about the 2nd Council of Nicaea in 787? It's a pretty awesome fulfillment of Thyatira and Jezebel. The Byzantine Empress, Irene, called it to rule on the use of images in the church. Irene was as close to 'Jezebel' as anyone I've ever read about. She was an idolatrous queen who wanted to rule the Empire uncontested so she had her son blinded and imprisoned. He died from the wounds. She then ruled as 'Basileus' - emperor (not Empress) (Like Jezebel she signed letters in the king's name). Another possibility is Theodora who again pushed the iconophile issue in 843A.D. This time it was kept and has been celebrated ever since in the Greek church as the "Triumph of Orthodoxy." Incidentally my encyclopedia says Jezebel died in 843 B.C. Interesting trivia.

The harlots would then be the churches that came from this system. Basically all the Orthodox churches. Greek, Russian, Serbian etc.

The Apostle Paul said, "Shall I take the members of Christ and join them to a harlot?" This really represented unfaithfulness to the terms of the New Covenant in Christ. So a harlot then basically is any church that pollutes its worship with idolatry.

Paul said he was 'astonished' when the Galatians had turned away from the gospel he had given them. The same word is used in Rev 17 only John was greatly astonished. (not clear in the KJV because different words are used - marvel - wonder) How much more astonished was John when he saw the church completely flooded with idols after the fourth century and becoming a persecutor of Jews and anyone who dissented from the Imperial church.

Constantine even erected an image of the Sun God in the Forum at Constaninople with his face on it and brought the emperor cult into the church. Like the messenger of Thyatira the bishops tolerated it. This image was raised on a porphery column - The woman was clothed in purple - porphery was a stone that was widely used in building the city.

The more information I find about Constantinople/Istanbul the more amazed I am at the accuracy of the prophecies.

[Guest]

18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyes their merchandise any more:
18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

Hi Sab, Have you ever heard of Walid Shoebat? He is a former Palistinian terrorist turned Christian who believes the beast that comes out of the pit in Rev 17 is Islam and that Mecca sits on 7 hills and Saudi Arabia sits on 3 seas and the wine that the world is after is oil. And he says all these products listed above are the products of Saudi Arabia. He just wrote a book called "Why i left Jihad" which i ordered where he goes into this. I also think the historist view makes the most sense.

[Guest]

18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyes their merchandise any more:
18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

Hi Sab, Have you ever heard of Walid Shoebat? He is a former Palistinian terrorist turned Christian who believes the beast that comes out of the pit in Rev 17 is Islam and that Mecca sits on 7 hills and Saudi Arabia sits on 3 seas and the wine that the world is after is oil. And he says all these products listed above are the products of Saudi Arabia. He just wrote a book called "Why i left Jihad" which i ordered where he goes into this. I also think the historist view makes the most sense.

Steve7150,

I have heard of this guy before. I saw him on one of the Christian networks a few years back. He said he spent an entire year of intense study of the Bible before converting. I am glad you brought this up, because I think about this guy often, but I didn't realize he had a book. I will have to check it out.

[Guest]

I have heard of this guy before. I saw him on one of the Christian networks a few years back. He said he spent an entire year of intense study of the Bible before converting. I am glad you brought this up, because I think about this guy often, but I didn't realize he had a book. I will have to check it out.

Chris, If you want to hear him interviewed you can check out olivetreeviews.org on 7/10/04. #18 at bottom archives. He does get into his revelation views , very interesting stuff.

[Guest]

Chris, If you want to hear him interviewed you can check out olivetreeviews.org on 7/10/04.

I'm not familiar with OliveTree. What is their take on things?
D.

[Guest]

Jan Markell is a died in the wool dispensationalist but i was really more recommending the interview then the site.

[Guest]

Thanks STEVE I will check it out.

[Guest]

hi steve,

Have I heard of Walid Shoebat? Yes. I saw him on Zola Levitt's program awhile ago. (edited by me. I got his book mixed up with one by Victor Mordecai)