Rev 20:11-15

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:44 pm

Steve,

I would be very interested in your understanding of the Great White Throne Judgment in Rev 20. If you will please answer these questions.
1. When does it take place?
2. Who is judged?
3. What is the purpose?
4. What is the outcome?
5. What is the Lake of fire/second death?
5. What other scriptures provide additional information on this event?

Thanks.

Rev 20:11-15
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Todd

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:54 am

Hopefully Steve will answer but in the meantime.
1. After Christ second coming.
2. Unbelievers
3. Judgement
4. Traditional Christianity believes in eternal punishment some others including myself believe in chastisement or corrective discipline where the punishment fits the crime.
5. Final death for unrepentant sinners.
6. A lot and it depends on your perspective. A couple that come to mind are Matt 5.25 "You will not get out of that place until you pay the last cent" and the verse about "some will be beaten with few lashes and some with many lashes."
BTW the books being opened are assummed to be books of people's works but they may not be ,the books may be the OT and NT being read to unbelievers or the gospels.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:54 am

Actually upon further reflection i think the second death is not merely the lake of fire. The second death is the first death and hell cast into the Lake of Fire. Death itself is cast into the LOF,and hell or really hades is cast into the LOF which should end death and hell and THEN AFTERWARDS unbelievers are tossed into the LOF AFTER death is destroyed.
So if God's kingdom shall be ALL in ALL then sin is burned up in the LOF also.
So the second death is actually THE DEATH OF DEATH IMHO.

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:22 am

STEVE7150 wrote:Actually upon further reflection i think the second death is not merely the lake of fire. The second death is the first death and hell cast into the Lake of Fire. Death itself is cast into the LOF,and hell or really hades is cast into the LOF which should end death and hell and THEN AFTERWARDS unbelievers are tossed into the LOF AFTER death is destroyed.
So if God's kingdom shall be ALL in ALL then sin is burned up in the LOF also.
So the second death is actually THE DEATH OF DEATH IMHO.

I would agree with you that when death is cast into the LOF is equivalent to saying "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (1 Cor 15:26). I believe this will occur when the last person has been resurrected to life.

Todd

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:50 am

Here is one of my questions.

2 Cor 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

If this statement is parallel to the Great White Throne Judgment in Rev 20 then it seems that both believers and others will be judged on the same basis. How does this fit into the scheme of things? Why are believers judged with non-believers?

1 Pet 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Is this referring to the same thing? If so, it says that this time has already come, rather than an event at the end of the age. Any thoughts?

Todd

Post by **_Anonymous** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:02 am

Hi Todd, I'm on my way out but just a quick response for now. I believe the Great White Throne judgement is only for unbelievers to be judged after they are raised but believers are judged when they die and their spirit taken to heaven. At least that's how i understand it. We do all appear before the judgement seat of Christ but at different times IMHO.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:06 am

Hi Todd, That was me, i keep forgetting to log on when i use a different computer. Steve7150

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:33 pm

Anonymous wrote:Hi Todd, I'm on my way out but just a quick response for now. I believe the Great White Throne judgement is only for unbelievers to be judged after they are raised but believers are judged when they die and their spirit taken to heaven. At least that's how i understand it. We do all appear before the judgement seat of Christ but at different times IMHO.

Steve, the "sea" which also "gives up the dead that are in it" represents the church I believe. See Rev 15:1-3. It appears as though the church is represented at the White Throne Judgment also.

Todd

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:52 pm

Todd, My understanding is that the "sea of glass" is in heaven before the throne of God. The sea of the earth is different and seems to represent the nature of the world. Restlessness,mysterious,uncertainty,darkness and ominous describes the sea of the earth which i think is a metaphor for the world or the things in it.
Did'nt Paul say "Don't you know Saints that you will judge the world." This would mean the saints were already judged would'nt it?

Post by **_Steve** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:06 pm

Since the original questions were addressed to me, I thought I would weigh-in.

I believe there will be one judgment, at the coming of Christ, in which He will judge the living and the dead (2 Tim.4:1). He will raise all the dead—saved and lost (John 5:28-29/ Acts 24:15), and will call them all before Him together (Matt.25:31ff). All will be judged and rewarded according to their works (Matt.16:27/Rom.2:5-10/1 Pet.1:17/ Rev.20:12-13).

In light of this, here is how I would answer your original questions:

1. When does it take place?
A. At the second coming.

2. Who is judged?
A. Everyone who has ever lived.

3. What is the purpose?
A. To vindicate God's verdict, and to show (by examining works) who had a justifying faith.

4. What is the outcome?
A. Lake of fire for the lost; Paradise of God for the saved.

5. What is the Lake of fire/second death?
A. Don't know, exactly. Have to wait and see.

6. What other scriptures provide additional information on this event?
A. See paragraph above.