The Trinity and the Old Testament
Re: The Trinity and the Old Testament
Hi Homer,
I believe the word you're referring to is Adonai. I have read that the word in Psalm 110:1 is not Adonai, but adoni. I don't believe adoni was used as a substitute for YHWH, but instead seems to refer to a human lord or king, but not to God.
Here's just one place talks about that:
http://claudemariottini.com/2012/08/21/ ... o-my-lord/
I believe the word you're referring to is Adonai. I have read that the word in Psalm 110:1 is not Adonai, but adoni. I don't believe adoni was used as a substitute for YHWH, but instead seems to refer to a human lord or king, but not to God.
Here's just one place talks about that:
http://claudemariottini.com/2012/08/21/ ... o-my-lord/
Re: The Trinity and the Old Testament
Pretty sure it's just a form of adonai used for both people and for God as well, exactly equivalent to the Koine word kurios.
Re: The Trinity and the Old Testament
The Trinity is never proved by a single proof-text but taking everything together in conjunction. Under the inspiration of the Spirit the writer of Acts interprets this verse to mean an ascension to heaven, yet I doubt a single Jew ever took it that way.Jose wrote:The point is that this verse should not be used as a proof text for the Trinity in the Old Testament. The phrase "the Lord said to my Lord", is not saying that Yahweh spoke to Yahweh as many people presume. The Hebrew behind the first LORD is YHWH (God), and the Hebrew for the second Lord is adoni (usually a human master/lord).
34 "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand" (Act 2:34 NAS)
Re: The Trinity and the Old Testament
Yes, I realize the trinity doctrine needs to be assembled, but I believe this verse should not be included among those to be considered. Even if it is referring to Christ's ascension, it still does not teach or even imply anything about the trinity.dizerner wrote:The Trinity is never proved by a single proof-text but taking everything together in conjunction.
Re: The Trinity and the Old Testament
Needless to say it supports rather than contradicts the Trinity. For us there is one Lord, and David calls him my Lord.
The Trinity and the Old Testament
Abigail called David "my lord." Sarah also called Abraham "my lord" - "my adoni." Aren't you seeing that your argument is not sound?dizerner wrote:Needless to say it supports rather than contradicts the Trinity. For us there is one Lord, and David calls him my Lord.
Re: The Trinity and the Old Testament
Also, as Jose pointed out, the one "lord" is Yahweh. The Hebrew people wouldn't pronounce the sacred name "Yahweh" for fear that they might accidentally take that name in vain and so they substituted "the lord" for it. This doesn't work in some places. For example God says, "My name is Yahweh." It won't work to translate it as "My name is the lord" for "the lord" is not a name. In spite of the fact that it doesn't make sense, a considerable number of translators rendered the sentence exactly that way.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: The Trinity and the Old Testament
I'm saying it fits the Trinity paradigm not proves it. Otherwise your argument works just as well against Biblical monotheism—God is called lord and Abigail is called lord: checkmate Christians.Jose wrote:Abigail called David "my lord." Sarah also called Abraham "my lord" - "my adoni." Aren't you seeing that your argument is not sound?dizerner wrote:Needless to say it supports rather than contradicts the Trinity. For us there is one Lord, and David calls him my Lord.
The Trinity and the Old Testament
Checkmate? Is this a game to you?dizerner wrote: I'm saying it fits the Trinity paradigm not proves it. Otherwise your argument works just as well against Biblical monotheism—God is called lord and Abigail is called lord: checkmate Christians.
1. You say that Psalm 110:1 supports the trinity because David (prophetically) calls Jesus "adoni" and therefore Jesus must be part of the trinity.
2. I say that your argument is not sound because that would mean that David and Abraham would also part of the trinity since they both are called "adoni" as well.
3. Then you say that my argument works against biblical monotheism. Why exactly? Because God is called lord and Abigail is called lord?
Perhaps you should take some of your own advice about putting some thought into an argument.
Re: The Trinity and the Old Testament
The point was not to express that it's a game to me, but to illustrate the absurdity of that particular logical argument. I guess you're missing my point. In debate, you can't make a logical argument that also works against your own position. But realize too, I never claimed the words "my lord" alone prove the Trinity, that would be absurd. That should really be obvious...