Jesus is God

[darinhouston]

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity (theotetos) dwells bodily,

I don't deny that Jesus was "divine" or "deity" in some sense, as that term is also used of others. But, assuming "being deity" is the same as ontologically existing as God, does it actually say in this instance that "He was the whole fullness of deity?" No. It says his body housed or contained (etc.) the fullness of deity. So, he was the vessel, not the contents. He was the "Temple" of the fullness of the Holy Spirit - much as we are said to be, for example, in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (if in part compared to his fullness). His sinlessness permitted him to be that dwelling -- when he left, he said he was going to prepare many dwelling places (which I think is a reference to the members of the church, made possible by his death, burial and resurrection). He was the perfect example - the exact image or representation of God in the world - for us to imitate and seek to become.

[Homer]

Hi Paidion,

Here I go again. I'm having difficulty understanding how what Paul never said proves your position.

Paul clearly indicated that Jesus was of the same essence as the Father. Doesn't this make Jesus deity? And does that not make Him a God? Saying He is a deity but not a God seems to be a distinction without a difference.

There is an immense difference between stating that Jesus is the unique divine son of God and stating that he is God Himself.

Is this difference one of essence or office? Here is how I would write your statement:

There is an immense difference between stating that Jesus is the unique divine son of God and stating that he is God the Father Himself.

[dwight92070]

Paidon,

That would be like me asking you to show me one place in the Bible where it says: "Jesus, the first act of God". You won't find it because it is not there. You and I both know that the phrase "God the Son" is not in the Bible.

So what? That proves nothing.

[dwight92070]

Let's stop playing games with words. Only God is worthy of worship. You can produce all sorts of examples where people have been worshipped, but none of it is legitimate. If anyone is actually worshipping another human, it is idolatry. You also say that Jesus is worthy of worship, yet He is not God. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either He is God and therefore worthy of worship, or He is not God, and to worship Him is idolatry. The Bible NOWHERE tells us of a being that can legitimately be worshipped, can legitimately be called a deity, can legitimately even be called "god", BUT IS NOT GOD. Jesus Himself told Satan, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him ONLY. Jesus is worshipped throughout the New Testament and neither He NOR HIS FATHER OBJECTED TO IT. In fact, the Father commanded His angels to worship Him.

This really should end the issue. There is no rational argument against this. You may think you have one, but either you're deceived, or you don't even know God and you are rebelling against Him and His word, and causing confusion in the body of Christ.

[Paidion]

After being accused by the Jews, Paul said to the governor:
Ac 24:14 “But, this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers...

Paul wrote to the Philippians in closing:
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

There is an old adage which shows a lot of wisdom:
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[commonsense]

The Bible NOWHERE tells us of a being that can legitimately be worshipped, can legitimately be called a deity, can legitimately even be called "god", BUT IS NOT GOD.

" You are gods and sons of the Most High."
God is Spirit and we worship Him in spirit and truth.

[dwight92070]

And you "will not see" what I just posted. So who's the blind one?

[dwight92070]

The Bible NOWHERE tells us of a being that can legitimately be worshipped, can legitimately be called a deity, can legitimately even be called "god", BUT IS NOT GOD.

" You are gods and sons of the Most High."

Dwight - These referred to here cannot be legitimately worshipped, nor can they legitimately be called a deity, because they are NOT the TRUE GOD, so, as I said, there is no rational argument against what I said.

[commonsense]

Dwight, It doesn't matter whether or not Jesus was God. The point of the matter is that He speaks for God and His words are true. And we need to obey!!

[darinhouston]

This really should end the issue. There is no rational argument against this. You may think you have one, but either you're deceived, or you don't even know God and you are rebelling against Him and His word, and causing confusion in the body of Christ.

Clearly, this does not end the issue for many truth-seeking individuals who know and love God - if it's enough of an argument for you, then great - go your way - why do you feel compelled to repeat your declarative "arguments" ? We are exploring texts and arguments here, not just trying to enforce a view. If you think these are just "games," then I recommend you just move on to other topics. No one is playing games here. No one is rebelling, they are investigating and exploring - the reason to have these debates here among those with open minds is to avoid unnecessary confusion in the body of Christ.

You seem frustrated that argument and debate continues and we don't just admit you're right and resolve to quit thinking for ourselves. This isn't that sort of place.