Jesus is God

[Paidion]

And you "will not see" what I just posted. So who's the blind one?

Here's another adage which may well be applicable:

Convince a man against his will; he's of the same opinion still.

[dwight92070]

Clearly, this does not end the issue for many truth-seeking individuals who know and love God - if it's enough of an argument for you, then great - go your way - why do you feel compelled to repeat your declarative "arguments" ?

Dwight - And you guys are not declaring YOUR "arguments"? Who are you kidding?

We are exploring texts and arguments here, not just trying to enforce a view.

Dwight - The view you're attempting to enforce is LOUD and CLEAR - Jesus is NOT God. As if your motives are pure and mine are not?

If you think these are just "games," then I recommend you just move on to other topics.

Dwight - The word "worship" is clear. The fact that only God can rightfully be worshipped is clear. The fact that Jesus was worshipped is also clear. But to accept those facts, but still deny that Jesus is God is playing games with words and meanings.

No one is playing games here. No one is rebelling, they are investigating and exploring

Dwight - I believe there are games being played and rebelling going on.

- the reason to have these debates here among those with open minds is to avoid unnecessary confusion in the body of Christ

Dwight - You are just as close-minded with your conclusions and view points as you think I am. You act as if you're open-minded, which is good, but I'm close-minded, which is bad. You and Paidon are very condescending and you both love to ridicule and mock any who dare to disagree with you.

Dwigbt - From what I've seen, many of your comments CAUSE confusion, and steer the body of Christ away from the clear meaning of scripture, rather than clarify it. How many times have I told you that you are muddying the waters of the clear meaning of passages? You do that a lot.

You seem frustrated that argument and debate continues and we don't just admit you're right and resolve to quit thinking for ourselves.

Dwight - And you seem frustrated that I am thinking for myself, but I do not come up with the same conclusions that you have.

[Paidion]

"God said it. I believe it. That settles it."

[darinhouston]

[ in the spirit of Dwight (just to illustrate a point) ]

Let's stop playing games with words. No one who "has a God" can be God. Any suggestion otherwise is illegitimate. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If he has a God he can't be God and to worship Him as God is idolatry. The Bible NOWHERE tells us of a being that has a God being God

This really should end the issue. There is no rational argument against this. You may think you have one, but either you're deceived, or you don't even know God and you are rebelling against Him and His word, and causing confusion in the body of Christ.

[Homer]

OK, let's put an end to the ad hominem stuff.

[Paidion]

"All that we can know is that we know nothing. And he who knows that has reached the height of human wisdom"—from Leo Tolstoi.

[darinhouston]

OK, let's put an end to the ad hominem stuff.

I was going more for sarcasm ad absurdum than ad hominem. But I agree with you and that was sort of what I was hoping for.

[dwight92070]

Since I posted my "let's stop playing games" piece, Paidon has responded 4 times, Darin twice, and Commonsense twice. But, as I said in that post, none of you have come up with a rational argument to discount my point - because there is no rational argument to refute it. Instead, Paidon and Darin continue to play word games. At least Commonsense took a stab at it.

In the meantime, let's look at more evidence:

Luke 24:36-53 The resurrected Jesus was able to disappear (Luke 24:31) and appear (Luke 24:36) at will. He could walk through walls (John 20:19), even though His resurrected body was flesh and bones (Luke 24:39-43). Apparently, He had no blood in His body, a glorified body. He showed them that He could eat food in this body (vs. 41-43). He supernaturally "opened their minds to understand the (Old Testament) scriptures". (vs 45)

In vs. 49, He said, "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high." (Just a side note here - did you see the Trinity here? JESUS is sending the HOLY SPIRIT, the promise of His FATHER)

"And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven. And they, AFTER WORSHIPPING HIM, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising God.

Luke tells us that they were WORSHIPPING HIM. But ONLY GOD CAN RIGHTFULLY BE WORSHIPPED. If Jesus was NOT God, then worshipping Him is idolatry. Yet right after they worshipped Jesus, they went to the temple in Jerusalem, and continued to worship God.

So, again, Jesus receives the worship that, rightfully, only belongs to God.

[darinhouston]

Colossians 2:8-10
New Revised Standard Version
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity (theotetos) dwells bodily, 10 and you have come to fullness in him, who is the head of every ruler and authority.

I'm curious how you see passages like 2 Peter 1:4 and Ephesians 3:19 in the context of this Colossians passage.

Through these things[q] he has bestowed on us his precious and most magnificent promises, so that by means of what was promised[r] you may become partakers of the divine nature

19 and thus to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you will be filled up to[a] all the fullness of God.

What about 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 ?

27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

I really am interested how folks see these verses.

[Homer]

Darin,

Hope to get back to you soon with my answers.