Could Jesus Have Saved Himself?

[darinhouston]

I was listening to Steve's verse-by-verse on the crucifixion, and he repeated an oft heard point that Jesus could have brought legions of angels to take him down from the cross if he had wanted to ignore his Father's will in the act. Something about it made me think -- ok, could he have done? More broadly, did he have any of his divine "powers" apart from the outworking of the Spirit and in his Father's will?

[Suzana]

Well, the way the scripture is worded it doesn't actually say it that way:

"Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?"
(Matt 26:53)
If Jesus had the power in Himself at the time, why would He have to appeal to the Father?
To me it sounds like Jesus knew that if He wished to, He could change His mind about going through with the whole purpose of coming here in the first place, and the Father would honour his request; so that would be as good as Jesus having the power himself, surely?

.... who, although He existed in the form of God,... (Phl 2:7) emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

I suppose it could be argued that Jesus had the power, because he was the Son of God, but chose not to use it, because He knew it wasn't God's will - Jesus did say He did nothing of Himself, and always those things that please the Father.
But then, what exactly did He empty Himself of?

[darinhouston]

Good catch Suzana. As usual, I should have turned first to the actual scriptural text. Lesson learned (again).

[Suzana]

You're welcome Darin.
I thought perhaps you had been aware of the wording but were still wondering if Jesus himself had any power.

[benstenson]

This topic often makes me think of this verse: "[Jesus Christ] in the days of his flesh ... offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death" (Heb 5:7)

[TK]

I do not think that Jesus had the power to remove Himself from the cross, any more than I would if I was crucified today. The angels would have helped him had he called, but he did not. He could not "come down from the cross" as his scorners urged him on his own initiative. He was not a superman-- he was a God-man who gave up all of his God-powers. I.e., in terms of powers inherent in and of himself, he was just a man.

I used to not think this way, and I would have been quite squeamish thinking that way several years ago. Now i find it wonderful and encouraging.

TK

[Perry]

>> I do not think that Jesus had the power to remove Himself from the cross, any more than I would if I was crucified today. The angels would have helped him had he called, but he did not. <<

I'm not sure I follow you. Whether the power existed in his physical muscles, or whether it was power that could be exercised by calling on the angles, it was still power. (Another way of looking at this is, whether he had the power in the muscles of his arms and legs, or whether he had the power in the muscles that operated tongue and vocal chords. But I think that still begs the question. He could have "prayed in his heart" just as effectively.)

To me, it's far more inspiring to consider he did have the power to save himself, and yet also had the love not to exercise that power.

[darinhouston]

Again, it would be the Father that would command the angels even at Jesus' request. I believe what TK is saying is that Jesus' power was derivative in nature and dependent on the Father just as ours is. We can equally ask the Father and if it's consistent with His will, I believe He would put legions of angels at our disposal. The main difference, I think, is that Jesus' will was always at one with the Father's as He walked perfectly and fully "in the Spirit" as we all do only partially or occasionally.

[TK]

Exactly, Darin.

We have the same HS that Jesus had. However, we do not "walk in the Spirit" as perfectly as Jesus did.

However, since we have the same Spirit, we have POTENTIAL to walk as Jesus walked, although never to the exact same extent because of our sinful nature.

I guess the HS could have given Jesus the physical power to come off the cross, just as the Spirit came upon Samson and gave him great physical strength.

But that is just the point- it would be the HS doing it- not Jesus in his own strength as a man.

That is why it should be encouraging to us. Jesus did not do the awesome things he did because he was God(because he had divested himself of God privileges- Phil. 2). He did them because he was a man filled with the HS, albeit perfectly.

Since we are just men, this should give us great encouragement.

TK

[benstenson]

we have POTENTIAL to walk as Jesus walked, although never to the exact same extent because of our sinful nature.

Can we be perfect as He is perfect, holy as He is holy, pure as He is pure, and righteous as He is righteous? Or does our nature tempt us beyond what we can bear?