Jesus is God

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:50 pm

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you BECAUSE OF ME. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; FOR IN THE SAME WAY they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:11-12

The prophets were persecuted because of God. Today, Christians are persecuted because of Jesus. Jesus is claiming that He is God.

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Paidion
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by Paidion » Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:12 pm

The apostle Paul is abundantly clear in his statements that the One God is the Father and that Jesus is himself man and is the one Lord of our lives.

(1Co 8:6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
(Eph 4:6) one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.
(1Ti 2:5) For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

dizerner

Re: Jesus is God

Post by dizerner » Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:27 am

That would mean the Father isn't Lord, since there's only one.

No, Paul was saying they both were the one Lord and one God.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:39 am

Good point Dizerner,

Paul was also abundantly clear in Titus 2:13 - " ...looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.
Peter was abundantly clear in 2 Peter 1:1 - " ... To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ ..."

Those who reject the Deity of Jesus want us to deny that scores of verses and passages really aren't saying what they obviously ARE saying.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:52 am

Matthew 5:20-48 Only God can change or add to His commandments, but Jesus did it several times here - "But I say to you". He also made the keeping of the Sabbath totally obsolete.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:57 pm

Dizerner made such a great point, I have to repeat it:

Paidion loves to quote 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Ephesians 4:5-6, both saying that there is only ONE LORD, JESUS, and ONE GOD, THE FATHER.

From those two verses, HE CONCLUDES THAT JESUS CANNOT BE GOD.

BUT IF THAT'S TRUE, THEN THE FATHER CANNOT BE LORD EITHER!!! OOPS! Apparently Paidion didn't see that coming.

We know the Father is BOTH GOD AND LORD.

We also know that Jesus is BOTH LORD AND GOD, JUST AS DIZERNER SAID.

That kind of blows Paidion's interpretation right out of the water. I doubt that he will be quoting those verses again, since they are additional confirmation that Jesus IS GOD.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:54 pm

Not so fast - I won't speak for Paidion, but I don't think his main point is the fact that there is ONLY one Lord in every context but that this verse is quite explicit in them being different from one another - one x and one y

Basic hermeneutics wouldn't permit your interpretation for either argument since many are called lord in different contexts. Here, the point is to distinguish Jesus from all of these other types of lords and to distinguish the one God from all other gods and to distinguish them from one another and point out that Jesus has been given dominion over us as our Lord by God. It is clear that things came FROM God THROUGH Jesus. That makes no sense if Jesus is God.

(a) Master: Ex. 21:5 (Covenant code) Gen. 24:12+, 44:5 (J, 20t.), 1 Sam. 30:13,15; 2 Kings 5:3,20,22; 6:15;
(b) Husband: Gen. 18:12 (J);
(c) Prophet: 1 Kings 18:7,13; 2 Kings 2:19; 4:16,28; 6:5; 8:5;
(d) Prince: Gen. 42:10 (E), Gen. 23:6,11,15 (P), Gen 43:20; 44:18+ ; 47:18, + (J, 12t.); Judges. 4:18;
(e) King: 1 Sam. 22:12+ (S&K 75t.);
(f) Father: Gen. 31:5 (E);
(g) Moses: Ex. 32:22; Num. 11:28; 12:11; 32:26,27 (J); Num. 36:2 (2x) (P);
(h) Priest: 1 Sam. 1:15, 26 (2x);
(i) Theophanic angel [an angel representing God]: Josh. 5:14; Judges. 6:13;
(j) Captain: 2 Sam. 11:11;
(k) General recognition of superiority: Gen. 24:18; 32:5+; 33:8+; 44:7+ (J 13t.), Ruth 2:13; 1 Sam. 25:24+ (15t.).(2). Reference to God: [adoni]. [Notice that now that word refers to God, it changes from the above form. The vowel under the “n” (the second letter from the left) has changed.]

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:35 am

Dizerner made such a great point, I have to repeat it:

Paidion loves to quote 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Ephesians 4:5-6, both saying that there is only ONE LORD, JESUS, and ONE GOD, THE FATHER.

From those two verses, HE CONCLUDES THAT JESUS CANNOT BE GOD.

BUT IF THAT'S TRUE, THEN THE FATHER CANNOT BE LORD EITHER!!! OOPS! Apparently Paidion didn't see that coming.

We know the Father is BOTH GOD AND LORD.

We also know that Jesus is BOTH LORD AND GOD, JUST AS DIZERNER SAID.

That kind of blows Paidion's interpretation right out of the water. I doubt that he will be quoting those verses again, since they are additional confirmation that Jesus IS GOD.

dizerner

Re: Jesus is God

Post by dizerner » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:28 am

darinhouston wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:54 pm
Not so fast - I won't speak for Paidion, but I don't think his main point is the fact that there is ONLY one Lord in every context but that this verse is quite explicit in them being different from one another - one x and one y

Basic hermeneutics wouldn't permit your interpretation for either argument since many are called lord in different contexts. Here, the point is to distinguish Jesus from all of these other types of lords and to distinguish the one God from all other gods and to distinguish them from one another and point out that Jesus has been given dominion over us as our Lord by God. It is clear that things came FROM God THROUGH Jesus. That makes no sense if Jesus is God.
I mean if you make a special exemption when Paul makes such a point of saying "For us there is ONLY one Lord," then it's not equitable to try to use the same logic for ONLY one God.

Really smacks of ad hoc special pleading.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:47 pm

dizerner wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:28 am
darinhouston wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:54 pm
Not so fast - I won't speak for Paidion, but I don't think his main point is the fact that there is ONLY one Lord in every context but that this verse is quite explicit in them being different from one another - one x and one y

Basic hermeneutics wouldn't permit your interpretation for either argument since many are called lord in different contexts. Here, the point is to distinguish Jesus from all of these other types of lords and to distinguish the one God from all other gods and to distinguish them from one another and point out that Jesus has been given dominion over us as our Lord by God. It is clear that things came FROM God THROUGH Jesus. That makes no sense if Jesus is God.
I mean if you make a special exemption when Paul makes such a point of saying "For us there is ONLY one Lord," then it's not equitable to try to use the same logic for ONLY one God.

Really smacks of ad hoc special pleading.
I do believe there is only One God and it's taught explicitly as the fundamental principle of Judaism and Christianity, but I am not making that point - I am saying this verse (among other things) is clearly distinguishing God from Jesus.

I do also believe (and this verse is confirming) that there is one Lord to us (Jesus) just as I have one lord at work even though his authority is from above (our CEO). Mankind has one Lord (Jesus) apart from the ultimate authority from whom all authority derives (God).

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