Jesus is God

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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Homer
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by Homer » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:33 pm

Paidion,

So what woman was involved other than the virgin Mary?

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Paidion
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by Paidion » Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:44 pm

Homer" wrote:Paidion,

So what woman was involved other than the virgin Mary?
I don't understand the import of your question. It takes only one woman to give birth.

As a human being, Jesus's mother was Mary, and His father was the Heavenly Father.
As a human being, Jesus was begotten by God. But long before that, He was begotten by God, the first of God's acts.
Or as one of the ancient creeds put it: "Begotten not created."

I am not at all sure that this answers your question, since I don't understand why you asked it. I have never affirmed that some woman other than the virgin Mary was involved in the birth of Christ. So as a human being, He was the Son of God, and prior to His birth as a human being, He was the Son of God. In the former case, He was begotten by God, and a human woman gave Him birth, whereas in the latter case, no woman was involved as the Father has begotten Him directly—the first of God's acts.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:02 pm

Paidion wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:44 pm
Homer" wrote:Paidion,

So what woman was involved other than the virgin Mary?
I don't understand the import of your question. It takes only one woman to give birth.

As a human being, Jesus's mother was Mary, and His father was the Heavenly Father.
As a human being, Jesus was begotten by God. But long before that, He was begotten by God, the first of God's acts.
Or as one of the ancient creeds put it: "Begotten not created."

I am not at all sure that this answers your question, since I don't understand why you asked it. I have never affirmed that some woman other than the virgin Mary was involved in the birth of Christ. So as a human being, He was the Son of God, and prior to His birth as a human being, He was the Son of God. In the former case, He was begotten by God, and a human woman gave Him birth, whereas in the latter case, no woman was involved as the Father has begotten Him directly—the first of God's acts.
I guess that would make him "born again"? Just kidding. (sort of)

dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:24 am

The scripture is filled with information that Jesus could not possibly have known, unless He was God:

1. How could He have known that Tyre and Sidon would have repented if they had seen the miracles that occurred in Chorazin and Bethsaida?
2. How could He have known that Sodom would not have been destroyed, had they seen the miracles that occurred in Capernaum?
3. How could He know that the people of Capernaum would descend to Hades?
Only someone who knew the hearts of the people of Tyre, Sidon, and Sodom, AND HOW THEY WOULD RESPOND, could possibly know such things. And those people lived approximately 2000 years before Jesus was even born!!
4. How could He know what happens to an unclean spirit when it goes out of a man? Matthew 12:43-45 Only someone who can see into the invisible spirit world could know such things. Jesus even predicts that the exorcised spirit will get SEVEN OTHER SPIRITS and return to the man that he originally inhabited! How could He possibly know that?
5. How could He know that the men of Nineveh and the Queen of the South would rise up and condemn His generation on judgment day?
6. How could He know that on the last day, His angels would gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness (the tares), and that they would be thrown into the furnace of fire?
7. How could He possibly know that little children who believe in Him have "their angels" in heaven "who continually see the face" of His Father? How can He know what's happening in heaven?
8. How does He know that His heavenly Father will hand "over to the torturers" those who refuse to forgive their brother from the heart?
9. How does He know why Moses permitted men, in his day, to divorce their wives? "Because of the hardness of (their) heart .."
10. How does He know that there are three different kinds of eunuchs?
11. How can He say about little children, that the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these? How could He know who's going to heaven and who's not?
12. Etc, etc, etc.

You might say, well, He had the gift of the "word of knowledge". No, THIS GOES WAY BEYOND THE WORD OF KNOWLEDGE! In fact, it GOES WAY BEYOND AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF KNOWLEDGE. This sheer volume of knowledge can ONLY be attributed to GOD HIMSELF.

Paul said that in Christ "are hidden ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."
He also said, "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
Peter told Jesus, "You know ALL things."
Yes He does, because He is God!

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Paidion
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by Paidion » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:10 pm

Dwight wrote:Peter told Jesus, "You know ALL things."
Yes He does, because He is God!
Actually "things" is not in the Greek (The writings of the New Testament were originally written in Greek)
So Peter said, "You know all" or "You know everything."
We often in our own day say that to a person who exhibits much knowledge.

But note that the following verese states that there was something Jesus didn't know:
But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. (Matthew 24:36)

Jesus was not God; He was the Son of God, and His knowledge was great, but He was not omniscient.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:50 am

I think it is safe to say that He knows all things now, as He did prior to His birth. That is, He knows NOW, when He will return. It is true that He "laid aside" much of HIs divine attributes when He came to dwell in a body, which apparently included some of His knowledge

But even given that truth, the amount of knowledge that He displayed while here on earth, cannot be attributed to anything other than His deity.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:20 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:50 am
I think it is safe to say that He knows all things now, as He did prior to His birth. That is, He knows NOW, when He will return.
This could well be the case, but I don't think that logically flows unless you think we will all have inexhaustible foreknowledge upon our own resurrections. But, how does Hebrews 1:5 fit with your view of pre-existence ?

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Paidion
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by Paidion » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:18 am

"You are my Son, today I have begotten you." (Heb 1:5)

Not speaking for Dwight, I will relate how this sentence expresses MY view of the pre-existence of the Son:

I understand (as the early Christians understood) that God begat His Son as His very first act. That's when He uttered to Him the words quoted above.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:30 pm

Paidion wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:18 am
"You are my Son, today I have begotten you." (Heb 1:5)

Not speaking for Dwight, I will relate how this sentence expresses MY view of the pre-existence of the Son:

I understand (as the early Christians understood) that God begat His Son as His very first act. That's when He uttered to Him the words quoted above.
Yes, I would think you might, though it does not seem consistent with eternal Sonship (something I "think" Dwight would believe in, as a Trinitarian).

dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:46 am

darinhouston wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:20 am
dwight92070 wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:50 am
I think it is safe to say that He knows all things now, as He did prior to His birth. That is, He knows NOW, when He will return.
This could well be the case, but I don't think that logically flows unless you think we will all have inexhaustible foreknowledge upon our own resurrections. But, how does Hebrews 1:5 fit with your view of pre-existence ?
Acts 13:30-35 seems to be saying that God begot Jesus, obviously in a different sense than His birth, when He was raised from the dead. So He was begotten physically at His birth, and spiritually at His resurrection. First He had a physical body, then He had a spiritual body, although He said that He was not (solely) a spirit. Apparently, before His birth, as the Word, He did not have the body that He has now.

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