Jesus is God

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:28 pm

Then shortly after the feeding of the 5000, Jesus sends His disciples out on a boat, and it's quite windy, making it difficult to row. Why didn't HE go with them? Obviously because He wanted to show them that He doesn't need a boat to cross the lake! He simply walks across!! He gets closer to them, so they can see Him. They think they're seeing a ghost now, in the middle of the night, and John 6:19 says that He was coming TOWARDS THEM, so they freak out and start screaming in terror. Jesus immediately tells them, "Take courage, I AM, do not be afraid."

I know, most versions say, "It is I", instead of I AM, but if you look at the Greek Interlinear, it is the two Greek words "ego eimi", which is I AM, the name of JEHOVAH GOD, first given to us in Moses' time.

As if that weren't enough, when Jesus gets into their boat, THE WIND immediately stops, and they are, incredibly, AT THE SHORE where they were headed!!!

So what do they do? The same thing you and I would do. Get down on our knees before Him and worship Him saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"
And of course, the only reason God's Son is worthy of worship, is because He is God.

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backwoodsman
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by backwoodsman » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:21 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:51 am
As far as I know, nobody has ever multiplied bread and fish since. Not even ONE LOAF or ONE FISH...
I know of a case where a ham was multiplied in a similar, if not quite as dramatic, way. It was a Christmas dinner for homeless people; they had only one ham, and far more people to serve than it could possibly be enough for. They prayed that there would be enough, and somehow it lasted until everyone was served.
There can be ONLY ONE EXPLANATION FOR THIS MIRACLE!!! JESUS IS GOD!!!
That's not really correct; certainly those Christians who believe Jesus is not God in the same way you & I do, also believe this miracle. Which brings up something I've been thinking about: Many of your posts would be far more effective, or would at least have a chance of being effective, if you'd take into account how those with whom you disagree see the verses you're using. Ask them how they see it, make sure you correctly understand their view, then target your response to explaining why you believe your view is better or more correct Biblically. If you try that approach, I think you'll find it much more profitable than simply bludgeoning them over the head with your view. Even if they remain unconvinced, at least they'll have some food for thought, which your current approach doesn't really give them.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:46 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:51 am
o
As far as I know, nobody has ever multiplied bread and fish since. Not even ONE LOAF or ONE FISH...
I know of a case where a ham was multiplied in a similar, if not quite as dramatic, way. It was a Christmas dinner for homeless people; they had only one ham, and far more people to serve than it could possibly be enough for. They prayed that there wuld be enough, and somehow it lasted until everyone was served.
Dwight - I don't doubt your story at all. But to compare one ham feeding however many homeless people - you didn't give the number, to 5 loaves and 2 fish feeding 5000 men, and maybe thousands more with women and children, IMO has to show Jesus' deity.
There can be ONLY ONE EXPLANATION FOR THIS MIRACLE!!! JESUS IS GOD!!!
That's not really correct; certainly those Christians who believe Jesus is not God in the same way you & I do, also believe this miracle.

Dwight -Well, I could have said, IMO there's only one explanation that comes even close to matching the evidence. But then every post I submit is my opinion.

Which brings up something I've been thinking about: Many of your posts would be far more effective, or would at least have a chance of being effective, if you'd take into account how those with whom you disagree see the verses you're using. Ask them how they see it, make sure you correctly understand their view, then target your response to explaining why you believe your view is better or more correct Biblically.

Dwight - I would be glad to do that, if they responded with their own view, but it's impossible to know their view to any degree if they don't post it. In fact, that's what I'm doing right now with your response, and it's what I've done pretty much in all my posts.

If you try that approach, I think you'll find it much more profitable than simply bludgeoning them over the head with your view.

Dwight - Each of us have our own personality and converse differently than others. I don't expect you to do it the way I do, nor should you expect me to do it the way you do To characterize my way of doing it as "bludgeoning them over the head" is mean and unfair. You still seem to hold a grudge against me from way back, when you suspended me. If that is not the case, then why do you treat me like this?

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backwoodsman
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by backwoodsman » Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:01 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:46 pm
Dwight - I would be glad to do that, if they responded with their own view, but it's impossible to know their view to any degree if they don't post it. In fact, that's what I'm doing right now with your response, and it's what I've done pretty much in all my posts.
My point was, be proactive about learning others' views so you're not just wasting your time. It's nothing to do with different styles of communicating, but everything to do with communicating at all. Of course, if you only want to air your view, and you don't care about discussion, or learning something, or helping others learn something, then feel free to ignore that advice. But, have you not wondered why your many posts in this thread the last couple months have gotten so little response? Do you think it's because your logic and Bible interpretation are unassailable, or could it be because others have learned it's pointless to respond to you?
To characterize my way of doing it as "bludgeoning them over the head" is mean and unfair. You still seem to hold a grudge against me from way back, when you suspended me. If that is not the case, then why do you treat me like this?
Wow... I'd hoped you'd learned something from that little timeout, but it seems clear now that you didn't.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:37 pm

backwoodsman wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:01 pm

My point was, be proactive about learning others' views so you're not just wasting your time. It's nothing to do with different styles of communicating, but everything to do with communicating at all. Of course, if you only want to air your view, and you don't care about discussion, or learning something, or helping others learn something, then feel free to ignore that advice.

Dwight - If I didn't care about discussion, then I wouldn't be on the Forum. I love learning things. Anytime you or anyone else can show me scripture that disproves my understanding, I will have learned something. I also love to help others learn the truth in the Bible. That's why I like to post what I have concluded is the truth from the scripture.

But, have you not wondered why your many posts in this thread the last couple months have gotten so little response?

Dwight - Yes, I have thought about it, but then I realized the WHOLE BIBLE FORUM has had very little activity the last couple months?

Do you think it's because your logic and Bible interpretation are unassailable

Dwight - Obviously that's not true. My logic and my Bible interpretation has been assailed for years.

or could it be because others have learned it's pointless to respond to you?

Dwight - That could be. But if they think it's pointless, because I won't change my mind, that's too bad. I don't stop sharing my views just because other people won't agree with me. I just try to provide more evidence, which is what I have been doing. They are free to do the same. But, as I said, the WHOLE BIBLE FORUM seems to have fallen silent for several months, with a few exceptions.

Wow... I'd hoped you'd learned something from that little timeout, but it seems clear now that you didn't.

Dwight - Let's see if that's true. Let's invite all those readers out there who think I have been "bludgeoning them over the head" with my posts, to speak up and say so on this forum. Please be honest and tell us if that is what you think. Thank you.

PR
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by PR » Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:01 am

Keep em coming Dwight. I love your enthusiastic posts.

Blessings,

PR

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:36 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:37 pm
Dwight - Let's see if that's true. Let's invite all those readers out there who think I have been "bludgeoning them over the head" with my posts, to speak up and say so on this forum. Please be honest and tell us if that is what you think. Thank you.
You asked for honesty.

Yes - it's virtually impossible to have a rational discussion with you on this topic - when we present anything that you can't seem to discuss or which conflicts with your position, you seem to just take a completely different set of verses or positions that don't bear on the specific issue being discussed to seemingly avoid the discussion. I don't mean this to be mean, but it "seems" like you are putting your fingers in your ears and saying "lalalalala." You seem to think your verses are so persuasive that. you don't need to interact with other verses or arguments (as if "that passage can't mean that because John 1:1 says Jesus is God... so there") --- that they are so clear the other passages or arguments just don't matter. And when those are addressed, you don't seem to discuss the reasons why you see them differently, you state another premise and verses in support of that premise.

At least that's what it seems like. There just seems no point to interact with what you present -- it's like whackamole. It's not that there aren't arguments or discussions to be had (and in some cases acknowledgments that they are problematic verses) but it just seems fruitless.

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backwoodsman
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by backwoodsman » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:56 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:37 pm
Dwight - If I didn't care about discussion, then I wouldn't be on the Forum. I love learning things. Anytime you or anyone else can show me scripture that disproves my understanding, I will have learned something. I also love to help others learn the truth in the Bible.
No doubt you really believe that, yet you demonstrate with almost every post that it's not true. I offered advice to help you better do what you say you love to do, learn and help others learn; you've done nothing but argue and try to turn the conversation adversarial. A wise man humbly listens to advice and carefully considers it, even if he doesn't like the source, because he knows he has much to learn. A wise man doesn't take offense or try to create conflict where there is none, yet you're always quick to do both.
Dwight - Obviously that's not true. My logic and my Bible interpretation has been assailed for years.
Unassailable
Adjective
1. Secure against attack; impregnable.
2. (by extension) Undeniable, incontestable or incontrovertible.
Synonyms: incontestable, unopposable, impregnable, invulnerable
(from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unassailable)

A wise man doesn't consider his opinions unassailable; but it seems very clear that that's how you view yours.

For future reference, if you Google any word, you can find the meaning very quickly.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:20 am

Mark 9:19 - "...O unbelieving generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him to me!" In my opinion, these are not the words of a mere man. Even the apostle Paul did not speak as if to a whole generation, labeling them unbelievers. Only God could talk this way, because He alone would be able to accurately identify a whole generation as unbelieving. Also, even though Jesus gave His twelve disciples authority to cast out demons, they couldn't do it here. This was a case for God, and fortunately God was there in their midst.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:15 am

Backwoodsman, this is an attempt to "clear the air". It dawned on me this morning that maybe you have been trying to tell me: "Dwight, if your posts are not being responded to, then please stop posting, and move on to another topic." If that is what you want, and if you had put it that way, I'm sure I would have said: "Okay, I'll do that." But instead you threw a little stinger in there: that I was "bludgeoning them over the head with my views". Stingers hurt and I didn't deserve that. So when I tried to defend myself, without lashing out at you, you threw in MORE stingers: "You don't care about discussion, or learning something, or helping other learn something. Do you think others have learned it's pointless to respond to you? I'd hoped you'd learned something from that little time out, but it seems clear now that you didn't." Now I'm being bombarded with stingers. I'm unteachable, not humble and not wise.

This all started with your "bludgeoning" comment and went downhill from there. All I ask is for is respect, not put-downs. I don't think that is asking too much.
Sincerely,
Dwight

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