Jesus is God

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:12 am

I find this fascinating. The Hebrew Old Testament says the following in Genesis 22:8: "God WILL PROVIDE HIMSELF THE LAMB for a burnt offering, my son." However the NASV and the NKJV and possibly many others add the word "for" in front of "Himself". So they read, "God will provide FOR Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son."
The Hebrew translation implies that God Himself is the Lamb, i.e. that the Lamb, Jesus, was God Himself. Obviously, Abraham's obedience and readiness to sacrifice his ONLY SON (Genesis 22:12), is a type of God offering His Son on the cross, and also a type of Christ's resurrection from the dead on the THIRD DAY (Genesis 22:4).
It appears that most of the English translators wanted to avoid anybody thinking that GOD HIMSELF was that lamb, so they (mistakenly) added the word "for".
"... God WAS IN Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, ..." 2 Corinthians 5:19 So we know that Jesus is GOD IN THE FLESH.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:34 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:12 am
I find this fascinating. The Hebrew Old Testament says the following in Genesis 22:8: "God WILL PROVIDE HIMSELF THE LAMB for a burnt offering, my son." However the NASV and the NKJV and possibly many others add the word "for" in front of "Himself". So they read, "God will provide FOR Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son."
The Hebrew translation implies that God Himself is the Lamb, i.e. that the Lamb, Jesus, was God Himself. Obviously, Abraham's obedience and readiness to sacrifice his ONLY SON (Genesis 22:12), is a type of God offering His Son on the cross, and also a type of Christ's resurrection from the dead on the THIRD DAY (Genesis 22:4).
It appears that most of the English translators wanted to avoid anybody thinking that GOD HIMSELF was that lamb, so they (mistakenly) added the word "for".
"... God WAS IN Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, ..." 2 Corinthians 5:19 So we know that Jesus is GOD IN THE FLESH.
It implies no such thing.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:42 am

The implication is not only obvious, but it is affirmed throughout scripture.

"God will provide Himself the lamb for a burnt offering, ..." A type of the Father becoming a man and dying for all mankind.

"Behold the Lamb of God (which was the Word which became flesh, God, and dwelt among us) Who takes away the sin of the world."

"Now the Lord saw and it was displeasing in His sight that there was no justice. And He saw that there was no man, and was astonished that there was no one to intercede; THEN HIS OWN ARM BROUGHT SALVATION TO HIM AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS UPHELD HIM." Isaiah 59:15-16 God Himself came to the earth in the flesh, and died for the sins of all mankind, and brought salvation to Himself.

"Oh give ear, Shepherd of Israel, You who lead Joseph like a flock; You who are enthroned above the cherubim, shine forth!" Psalm 80:1

"I am the Good Shepherd; the Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep ... and I lay down My life for the sheep."

There is only ONE ULTIMATE SHEPHERD - GOD. If Jesus is not God, then He also cannot be our Good, Chief (1 Peter 5:4), Shepherd. But He is all three - our Good Shepherd, our Chief Shepherd, our God. He is also the Shepherd of Israel.

"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."

"For God so loved the world, that He (laid down His life and) gave His only begotten Son (Who was God Himself in the flesh), that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

" ...the church of God, which He (God) purchased with His own blood." Acts 20:28

dizerner

Re: Jesus is God

Post by dizerner » Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:57 am

Even Simon Peter needed the Father to reveal it.

It doesn't come by logic.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:24 pm

dizerner wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:57 am
Even Simon Peter needed the Father to reveal it.

It doesn't come by logic.
I assume you're referencing John 20. There's no indication that the Father revealed anything to Peter in that situation - in fact, Jesus states himself that it was seeing Jesus and, notably, his hands and side that caused him to believe what was being revealed - what was being "believed" was the natural fact that the man standing there was the Lord - the man he saw die. (that's actually what the verse says). The subsequent utterance is debated greatly but there is no indication that the Father revealed anything in. that utterance. It could well be (if it's true) that he already knew that his Lord was "God" but only needed to believe that it was his Lord.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:09 am

dizerner wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:57 am
Even Simon Peter needed the Father to reveal it.

It doesn't come by logic.
Dwight - I assume you're talking about Matthew 16:17, but I used logic and memory to figure that out, so does that not count? It's amazing how some Christians believe that God can use our will, our emotions, our body, our soul, and our spirit - but not our minds, or our logic. "The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps." We are told to "get understanding", but not to "lean" on it, or put our ultimate trust in it. But we would be fools to not seek it and use it daily.

Dwight - Jesus said that "flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father Who is in heaven." He did not say that Peter's logic or intelligence was not involved, but that mankind was not the source of that information.

Dwight - In fact, you used logic to even come up with your conclusion - "It doesn't come by logic." (Even though I believe your logic is incorrect.)

Dwight - We all use logic just about every waking moment of our lives. We could not function without it. We could not come to Christ, or understand the Bible without it. We are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, MIND, and strength.

Dwight - Logic does not always contradict revelation. In fact, God often uses our logic to bring revelation to us. For example, in John 1:1, we know that the Word was God and John 1:14 says that "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, ..." Simple logic tells us that the Word which was God became flesh, in the person of Jesus. Simple logic tells us that Jesus, therefore, is God in the flesh. Did I come to that conclusion without God using my logic to reveal it to me? No, God used my mind and my logic to reveal to me that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Dwight - Sure, knowledge can puff us up, but we would be fools to ignore knowledge and logic.

Dwight - Show Me one statement of Jesus, or Paul, or any Bible author, that does not require our minds and our logic to understand, and obey.

dizerner

Re: Jesus is God

Post by dizerner » Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:34 pm

darinhouston wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:24 pm
I assume you're referencing John 20.
Try again! :D

dizerner

Re: Jesus is God

Post by dizerner » Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:37 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:09 am
Dwight - Jesus said that "flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father Who is in heaven." He did not say that Peter's logic or intelligence was not involved, but that mankind was not the source of that information.
You're just being argumentative.

The flesh profits nothing, and that includes the power of our own reasoning.

No one "figures out" that it's true that God became a man to suffer for moral crimes against Him (John 3).

If you think one can intellect and logic our way to God, you will not get very far, and be stuck in the flesh, and I don't want that for anyone.

What is your ratio of intercession and prayer to just constant arguing?

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:05 pm

dizerner wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:37 pm

The flesh profits nothing, and that includes the power of our own reasoning.

Dwight - I disagree that our reasoning is a sinful act of the flesh. Once again, if you're willing to admit it, you had to use your reasoning and logic to even make that statement. Our reasoning ability is a gift from God. Our ability to think logically is also a gift from God. Our brain is a gift from God. Why would He condemn our using it, and label it a "work of the flesh?" He didn't. I thank God that He has given us these abilities.

Dwight -If our logic and our reasoning were deeds of the flesh, then why did Paul not list them along with the other deeds of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21? Also why would the Bible quote the Lord, saying, "Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord."? So is the Lord asking the reader to get into the flesh here, since He tells us to reason with Him? Of course not.

No one "figures out" that it's true that God became a man to suffer for moral crimes against Him (John 3).

Dwight - I agree, no one figures that out. Rather they read it in the Bible, or heard it preached, and they either believed it or not. It's their faith in Jesus, after hearing a presentation of the gospel, or reading it in the Bible themselves (both of which are presented with logic and reason), that saves them.

Dwight - Why is it that the seed thrown beside the road did not bear fruit? Jesus said that when someone hears the word of the kingdom, and DOES NOT UNDERSTAND IT, then the devil comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. Logic and reasoning are necessary to even understand the word of the kingdom.

Dwight - How did Jesus describe the seed sown on the good soil? "... this is the man who hears the word AND UNDERSTANDS IT; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, ..." If the gospel is not presented with sound logic and reasoning, so that they can understand it, people cannot be saved.

Dwight - After Jesus gave all those parables in Matthew 13, what did He ask His disciples? Did He ask them if God had supernaturally revealed anything to them? NO. HE ASKED THEM, "HAVE YOU UNDERSTOOD ALL THESE THINGS?" In other words, did they use their logic and reasoning skills to comprehend what He said?

If you think one can intellect and logic our way to God, you will not get very far, and be stuck in the flesh, and I don't want that for anyone.

Dwight - Again, using reason and logic, the Bible does not tell us that that is the way to God. But it does encourage us to use reason and logic to understand the true path to God - faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:02 pm

dizerner wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:34 pm
darinhouston wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:24 pm
I assume you're referencing John 20.
Try again! :D
But of course! Silly me - but, of course what was revealed was being Son of God - Messiah. But, you knew that.

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