Did Jesus have faith?

[dwight92070]

I just looked up every time the word "faith" is used in the New Testament. Not one of them says that Jesus had faith. The majority of the references speak of OUR FAITH IN JESUS. Several verses use the word "faith" to refer to the gospel message itself. Or other times our faith is mentioned, without a reference to the object of our faith (or more properly, the PERSON that we have faith in) - Jude 3, for example, or Ephesians 6:16 speaks of the shield of faith, not mentioning Jesus, but that is obviously implied. Then there are a few times where we are told to have faith in God. So we know that when we have faith in Jesus, we are putting our faith in God.

It makes sense. God doesn't need faith. Who would He have faith in? Jesus is God in the flesh. Apparently, He doesn't need faith either. Rather He is THE OBJECT OR THE PERSON THAT OUR FAITH IS DIRECTED TOWARD.

[darinhouston]

I just looked up every time the word "faith" is used in the New Testament. Not one of them says that Jesus had faith. The majority of the references speak of OUR FAITH IN JESUS. Several verses use the word "faith" to refer to the gospel message itself. Or other times our faith is mentioned, without a reference to the object of our faith (or more properly, the PERSON that we have faith in) - Jude 3, for example, or Ephesians 6:16 speaks of the shield of faith, not mentioning Jesus, but that is obviously implied. Then there are a few times where we are told to have faith in God. So we know that when we have faith in Jesus, we are putting our faith in God.

It makes sense. God doesn't need faith. Who would He have faith in? Jesus is God in the flesh. Apparently, He doesn't need faith either. Rather He is THE OBJECT OR THE PERSON THAT OUR FAITH IS DIRECTED TOWARD.

While contemplating faith (whether that term is used or not), consider obedience and submission and the consequences of those in the same regard.

Meanwhile, here's a blog post and lengthy series on the subject with links to a presentation and an academic paper...

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-have-faith-in-god/



https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-1/

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-2/

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-3/

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-4/

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-5/

[dwight92070]

I just looked up every time the word "faith" is used in the New Testament. Not one of them says that Jesus had faith. The majority of the references speak of OUR FAITH IN JESUS. Several verses use the word "faith" to refer to the gospel message itself. Or other times our faith is mentioned, without a reference to the object of our faith (or more properly, the PERSON that we have faith in) - Jude 3, for example, or Ephesians 6:16 speaks of the shield of faith, not mentioning Jesus, but that is obviously implied. Then there are a few times where we are told to have faith in God. So we know that when we have faith in Jesus, we are putting our faith in God.

It makes sense. God doesn't need faith. Who would He have faith in? Jesus is God in the flesh. Apparently, He doesn't need faith either. Rather He is THE OBJECT OR THE PERSON THAT OUR FAITH IS DIRECTED TOWARD.

While contemplating faith (whether that term is used or not), consider obedience and submission and the consequences of those in the same regard.

Meanwhile, here's a blog post and lengthy series on the subject with links to a presentation and an academic paper...

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-have-faith-in-god/



https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-1/

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-2/

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-3/

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-4/

https://trinities.org/blog/did-jesus-ha ... od-part-5/

We all know how this works. I plan to view/listen to all of the above blogs, when I get the time to do so. But before I do, could you explain what is faulty about my logic? Yes, Diszerner, I used my brain and evidence in God's word to come to my conclusion. So I know that you will probably say that my "fault" is in using logic to begin with. But nothing in the Bible has any meaning or relevance without using the logic God has given us. Knowing Darin, all of the blogs that he has presented here will come to the exact opposite conclusion that I have. They will say that Jesus had faith just like the rest of us. Why then, does the Bible not say that He had faith?

[dwight92070]

Right out of the gate, the very first blog says:

Well, at one point (Mark 14:32-42) Jesus seems to have been extremely stressed out (see Luke 22:44) about what he thought was going to happen, and he was unsure enough to ask God to be excused, if that was compatible with God’s will. That looks like “faith” to me!

Unbelieveable! Jesus was UNSURE about what was going to happen?? Are you kidding me? Jesus predicted that He would die repeatedly in the gospels. He even predicted HOW He would die - by being lifted up on a cross. So this man's premise is false right from the start. But using his false premise, he concludes: "That looks like "faith" to me!"

Well, he can call it that if he wants to, but the scripture doesn't call it that. The scripture calls it obedience, not faith. Philippians 2:8

[dwight92070]

The bloggers third point is also flawed:

Third, a gospel writer doesn’t need to relate Jesus saying “I have faith in God” to teach that Jesus had great faith in God. All he needs to do is portray it. And by his actions, the Jesus of the gospels shows his faith in God by his prayers to God, and by his active trust in God during a terrible, indeed fatal ordeal.

So now we're expected to glean truth or doctrine from the scripture, NOT by what is said or not said, but by what is PORTRAYED??? Jesus said, "If you continue IN MY WORD (NOT in what you think is portrayed), then you are truly My disciples."

What we each see "portrayed" in scripture is always from our own perspective - in this case, we're all supposed to agree with what this blogger calls faith. I don't see that at all.

[dizerner]

Snarky comments aside, it's an interesting question.

One finds no legitimate reason to think Jesus did not have faith in God.

1. Jesus had to fulfill the Law for us which commands trust in God.
2. Jesus shared the weaknesses and limitations of a human nature with only one thing missing—sin.
3. Imitation of Christ is everywhere commended and makes no sense he would be missing a virtue.

Another interesting question is whether God's divine nature might have faith—certainly with omniscience one does not need a faith that is in some way combined with uncertainty, but God may be said to believe in himself or even to put faith in his servants (even if they let him down).

Peace to those in Christ.

[dwight92070]

Snarky comments aside, it's an interesting question.

One finds no legitimate reason to think Jesus did not have faith in God.

1. Jesus had to fulfill the Law for us which commands trust in God.
2. Jesus shared the weaknesses and limitations of a human nature with only one thing missing—sin.
3. Imitation of Christ is everywhere commended and makes no sense he would be missing a virtue.

Another interesting question is whether God's divine nature might have faith—certainly with omniscience one does not need a faith that is in some way combined with uncertainty, but God may be said to believe in himself or even to put faith in his servants (even if they let him down).

Peace to those in Christ.

I made no snarky comments. I simply acknowledged what you have expressed as being your opinion about logic.

The most legitimate reason is that the Bible doesn't say He had faith.

1. So did the Law command Him to trust in God? Why would the Law command Jesus to trust in Himself?
2. Also in Him "all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form".
3. Where does it say that we are to imitate Christ's faith?

Where is the scripture that says that God has faith in Himself? Where is the scripture that says that God puts faith in his servants?

[darinhouston]

Snarky comments aside, it's an interesting question.

One finds no legitimate reason to think Jesus did not have faith in God.

1. Jesus had to fulfill the Law for us which commands trust in God.
2. Jesus shared the weaknesses and limitations of a human nature with only one thing missing—sin.
3. Imitation of Christ is everywhere commended and makes no sense he would be missing a virtue.

Another interesting question is whether God's divine nature might have faith—certainly with omniscience one does not need a faith that is in some way combined with uncertainty, but God may be said to believe in himself or even to put faith in his servants (even if they let him down).

Peace to those in Christ.

I made no snarky comments. I simply acknowledged what you have expressed as being your opinion about logic.

The most legitimate reason is that the Bible doesn't say He had faith.

1. So did the Law command Him to trust in God? Why would the Law command Jesus to trust in Himself?
2. Also in Him "all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form".
3. Where does it say that we are to imitate Christ's faith?

Where is the scripture that says that God has faith in Himself? Where is the scripture that says that God puts faith in his servants?

Just like you see the Trinity in Scripture when it doesn't say so, we see Jesus exercising faith even though it doesn't say so explicitly using that terminology. But, everywhere we see Jesus walking in Faith and praying and seeking God's will and following it in obedience, not knowing many things as he did so - temptation without faith is a subterfuge. Being tempted like us in all respects while being obedient is the essence of faith.

Your bias is so strong in your response to the first point in the blog article about Jesus being unsure about whether God would remove the cup and so forth makes a mockery of one of the most human and important examples of Christ to us in living in faith makes it seemingly worthless to even engage you in this (or perhaps any) discussion. You seem intent only in ridiculing what you clearly haven't engaged enough with an open mind to understand.

Prayerfully approach the subject with humility and review that material or not if you want to really engage this discussion -- otherwise, pearls and swine come to mind. There is a LOT of material there and if you are truly interested in the subject there should be things to cause you to think about this differently. If you don't want to think about it differently, then you're in the wrong place. I took your post as an honest inquiry - but it seems you aren't questioning and exploring - you are only trying to preach.

[darinhouston]

Here's a very brief article from a trinitarian on a mainstream Christian source if you want some comfort that you are free to explore this topic without fear of apostasy...

https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-j ... -and-love/

[darinhouston]

Here's Steve talking about Jesus' faith.

@ about the 39:54 mark
https://tnp.theeggbeater.net/audio/2012/tnp20120113.mp3